Which sq amp to go with?
07-15-2010, 04:44 PM
#21
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 819
wow so you're saying that if both amp are set at the same power (before clipping) and that they can reproduce the same bandwidth they will sound the same... WOW unbelievable!
Ever notice the ± XXdB at the end of the freq response, that mean the amp will not reproduce the entire bandwidth at the same level for certain frequency, same goes for the distortion level, you can have 2 amps with the same THD but that doesn't mean the same harmonics are affected in both amps.
Ever notice the ± XXdB at the end of the freq response, that mean the amp will not reproduce the entire bandwidth at the same level for certain frequency, same goes for the distortion level, you can have 2 amps with the same THD but that doesn't mean the same harmonics are affected in both amps.
07-15-2010, 08:41 PM
#22
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
all an amp does is take a small ac voltage and make it larger thats it... now how it does it... is what some people say make or break and amp. but the output befor clip is exact on all amps regardless of price.... so that 10k audison sounds identical to the 1500.00 pioneer a900 and identical to the 56.buck nextar at canadian tire.... now this is obvious befor clip and within bandwidth... some people have mistaken volume for sq but thats not the case... ya the thesis will play louder befor clip than the nextar but as long as the waveform leaving the amp is the same as when it came in... the outputs will all sound identical!! now if the amp is changing the input signal in any way then its an eq booster, and i dont think thats what we are talking about here... as far as the neighsayers who think this is rubbish, mr. clark will award 5k to anyone who can here the difference between, so called sq amps and flee market junk... been doing this test for 20 yrs and no one, not one person. nada, has gotten any money.. remember a lamborgini goes 60 miles per hr just like a hyundai pony...my point here is one has alot more features than the other and is plain and simply a better vehicle. just like amps they do the same thing just with different options...
07-15-2010, 08:48 PM
#23
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
fair question, what makes an amp a SQ amp. If they all sound the same it doesn't matter and if they don't all sound the same shouldn't we be buying the one that has the least affect on the signal?
07-15-2010, 09:25 PM
#24
Originally Posted by goalie 35 
"snip" ... as long as the waveform leaving the amp is the same as when it came in... the outputs will all sound identical!!
Not sure what I'm missing here... but it seems like you are both saying the same thing? 
"snip" ... as long as the waveform leaving the amp is the same as when it came in... the outputs will all sound identical!!
you are not representing the test accurately. The test does not prove all amps sound the same (they do not and the test HAS PROVEN THAT) but that all amps can be made to sound the same with EQ. This IS NOT my opinion this is RC's based on his testing. Many have reliably heard the difference but once the amps were EQed then the statistical difference went away.
07-15-2010, 09:59 PM
#25
Zed Audio Leviathan, a little more than $550 but will blow away any of the amps listed in power and SQ. Best sounding amp I have heard in 15-20 years. This amp can run your entire system on 25A-30A, check it out as you will not be sorry.
07-15-2010, 10:53 PM
#26
Goalie Man
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,412
you guys do realize that our brain cant i repeat cant hold sound memory for more than around 30-60 sec. this has been proven time and time again, sound is just one of those things that our mind dosent remember well.....as far as all amps sound the same, i stand by my statement... you cant tell me you can hear the difference in a blind test between amps... now i also stated that if an amp changes the input at the output stage then its an eq/booster... so lets take these amps again test them, look at the output if the input is the same as the output then they should all sound alike... its just looks and power that are going to be alot different.
07-15-2010, 11:08 PM
#27
Goalie Man
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,412
also if you have never done a blind listning test on amps then shut the hell up!!! you dont know what you are talking about.. just because you read things dosent make you an expert..... real world knowledge beats books knowledge everytime...physics are physics you cant change that.. if you have to justify the fact that you bought an overpriced amp then you go right ahead. but i can saftely say that you cant tell the difference between that arc amp and the boss pos amp in a blind test... strictly a/b comparison under real world conditions as to what the amps are meant to be used in... now that being said.. part two:
upon looking over the componets of a quality amp like a pioneer a900, jbl px 300.4 i noticed high speed fets, good power supplies, large traces, quality motorola parts ect.. now with a good design and excellent parts all the little improvements, i feel, can make a difference to the output sound of the amp and each amp design will lend to its own unique sound characteristics... and i have done this testing with mark busier of orion fame and larry frederick of pheonix gold fame when he was up here in canada doing training..... the meters they were using and mainly an o-scope. would show a definite different wave form from amp company to amp company.. at the time we did audiobahn, p.g. orion, rockford, pyramid, linear series, so some good some junk, but we concluded that the output was minimal in a car to the human ear... and test after test proved this.. so do amps sound different......... technically yes........... are some better sounding then others.... according to the above statement the answer has to be yes..... but can you actually hear the sonic characteristics in a noisy car with carpet, seats, glass, plastic, vynil, ect in the way... probably not.. but hey if you can then good on ya....
upon looking over the componets of a quality amp like a pioneer a900, jbl px 300.4 i noticed high speed fets, good power supplies, large traces, quality motorola parts ect.. now with a good design and excellent parts all the little improvements, i feel, can make a difference to the output sound of the amp and each amp design will lend to its own unique sound characteristics... and i have done this testing with mark busier of orion fame and larry frederick of pheonix gold fame when he was up here in canada doing training..... the meters they were using and mainly an o-scope. would show a definite different wave form from amp company to amp company.. at the time we did audiobahn, p.g. orion, rockford, pyramid, linear series, so some good some junk, but we concluded that the output was minimal in a car to the human ear... and test after test proved this.. so do amps sound different......... technically yes........... are some better sounding then others.... according to the above statement the answer has to be yes..... but can you actually hear the sonic characteristics in a noisy car with carpet, seats, glass, plastic, vynil, ect in the way... probably not.. but hey if you can then good on ya....
07-15-2010, 11:11 PM
#28
Goalie Man
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,412
by the way those arc amps look great and have tons of real usable power.. excellent choise.. but your car probably sounds great due to proper speaker placement ,enclosures and sound proofing in the car..
i hate sounding like a bastard with this MY AMP SOUNDS BETTER THAN YOUR AMP fight but i know what is smoke and mirrors and what isent.... amps do sound different... yes but can you hear that sonic feature in a car??? no thats where i get so fustrated with media and these show boats with $10k amps who tell the world eveyone sucks because they cant have a thesis.... sorry but windows down, 60miles per hr, listneing to a lousy recorded led zepplin 4 8-track.... no matter what amp you bought it aint gonna sound that great... but windows down, warm summer breeze zepplin playin loud, pretty girls walking by, who cares anyway....... cheers..
i hate sounding like a bastard with this MY AMP SOUNDS BETTER THAN YOUR AMP fight but i know what is smoke and mirrors and what isent.... amps do sound different... yes but can you hear that sonic feature in a car??? no thats where i get so fustrated with media and these show boats with $10k amps who tell the world eveyone sucks because they cant have a thesis.... sorry but windows down, 60miles per hr, listneing to a lousy recorded led zepplin 4 8-track.... no matter what amp you bought it aint gonna sound that great... but windows down, warm summer breeze zepplin playin loud, pretty girls walking by, who cares anyway....... cheers..
Last edited by goalie 35; 07-15-2010 at 11:17 PM.
07-16-2010, 09:35 AM
#30
Tru Tech C7.4
Anyways, in the real world as many have discussed so often, we start out with the WORST environment possible, add in imperfect driver placement (even sometimes in the best situation), manipulate signals all to hell with time alignment and EQ's............ we add so much coloration and hell to the original signal that it often baffles me as to why so many get so tied up in what's the perfect piece of equipment.
In the realm of discussions about equipment, there’s no perfect answer. Everyone has their opinions……. which is fair. My recommendation is this. Make sure what you buy is in line with the level of your install, otherwise you are just pissing away money. Your entire audio system is only as good as the weakest link in the chain. That Tru Tech C7.4 may look good in your trunk and impress your friends, but maybe you should have spent more of that money on your install or the big 3, etc, for a more over balanced system.
Anyways, in the real world as many have discussed so often, we start out with the WORST environment possible, add in imperfect driver placement (even sometimes in the best situation), manipulate signals all to hell with time alignment and EQ's............ we add so much coloration and hell to the original signal that it often baffles me as to why so many get so tied up in what's the perfect piece of equipment.
In the realm of discussions about equipment, there’s no perfect answer. Everyone has their opinions……. which is fair. My recommendation is this. Make sure what you buy is in line with the level of your install, otherwise you are just pissing away money. Your entire audio system is only as good as the weakest link in the chain. That Tru Tech C7.4 may look good in your trunk and impress your friends, but maybe you should have spent more of that money on your install or the big 3, etc, for a more over balanced system.
