stage depth
07-31-2009, 04:36 PM
#21
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Almas bronco had an on axis presentation as well, and that was definitely one of the most spatially accurate vehicles ever early on in its SQ life... ya know with all the games that were played by some of the big boys it is tough to say what was truth and what was shinola. I am going to say at this point we are ONLY talking about cone and dome drivers and horn loaded drivers, so I am not aware of any manufacturer of home or pro-audio that doesn't go with on axis drivers (Snell did have a rearward tweeter for >16K Hz)
recordings with depth are recordings of live musical events, not to say a ham fisted recording engineer cant dick it up. Studio recordings can have depth but generally the instruments are all close miked, and it is hard to have depth when the recordings listening position is 3' from the drum, 3'' from the acoustic guitar, and 1" from the vocalist (though it can be done.. but is it accurate?)
From a depth point of view I don't talk about hood deep and stuff like that (that is car audio nonsense), the system either accurately reproduces sound stage and depth or it doesn't. A close miked guitar should be intimate and close (in the room with you) while a symphony should be several rows back. There shouldn't always be depth... but if the recording has it it should be reproduced.
The finest recordings I have ever heard for accurate reproduction of depth and staging is the ISOmike recordings done by Ray Kimber. Really, do yourself a favor and buy one or two
recordings with depth are recordings of live musical events, not to say a ham fisted recording engineer cant dick it up. Studio recordings can have depth but generally the instruments are all close miked, and it is hard to have depth when the recordings listening position is 3' from the drum, 3'' from the acoustic guitar, and 1" from the vocalist (though it can be done.. but is it accurate?)
From a depth point of view I don't talk about hood deep and stuff like that (that is car audio nonsense), the system either accurately reproduces sound stage and depth or it doesn't. A close miked guitar should be intimate and close (in the room with you) while a symphony should be several rows back. There shouldn't always be depth... but if the recording has it it should be reproduced.
The finest recordings I have ever heard for accurate reproduction of depth and staging is the ISOmike recordings done by Ray Kimber. Really, do yourself a favor and buy one or two
07-31-2009, 04:49 PM
#22
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
Concert halls are traditionally rectangular (shoebox) shaped so you get musically-pleasing reflections off the sides, roof, floor and rear walls.
Or maybe you were thinking locally. The QE in Van:
The Orpheum is kind of a bee hive shape:
Or the Vancouver Playhouse:
Or Chan Center at UBC. It's not even square outside:
Or ANY outdoor venue... z e r o reflections aside from the back of the bowl. Hollywood bowl:
Anyway, the point being that these purpose built acoustic structures tend to want to limit and diffuse reflections rather than amplify or rely on them in any way. Same in a car, you want to try to control, disperse, and damp reflections so you are listening to the direct sound wave of the driver, whether on or off axis. This is a biggie and one of the reasons dashtop drivers have had the success they have.
And, I believe Kimura's Acura had rear sidepanel 10s too, similar to the 12s in the GN. Matsubara's TBird had rear deck 8s though.
07-31-2009, 04:55 PM
#23
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Anyway, the point being that these purpose built acoustic structures tend to want to limit and diffuse reflections rather than amplify or rely on them in any way. Same in a car, you want to try to control, disperse, and damp reflections so you are listening to the direct sound wave of the driver, whether on or off axis.
07-31-2009, 07:07 PM
#27
Goalie Man
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,412
again what is depth in a car....... am i 50 rows back in real life but 2 ft back in the car.... already we have issues... so i guess the best we can do is use good quality equipment, and some sound install guidelines and go from there.... the biggest thing i try to due is get the speakers performing exactly what they are suppose to be..... so i rta each speaker and check its polarity, spl, xover point and where its playing in the musical spectrum...... as i have found out, most processors get you close but unless you go that extra mile, you will always be a bridesmaid and never a bride.
08-01-2009, 12:03 PM
#28
I played with my pillar tweeters positioning for a couple of weeks before I built
the pods....I was able to get a deep stage or a wide stage..with my personal listening
I prefer a wider stage as it sounds more full to me
in a car I like the tweets off axis a bit...I like on axis if the tweeters are not 2ft in my face
some of the older longer cars with nice big kicks work alot better than something like
my minivan..for example Biggs Regal..there is a set of JBL 608gti components down
in the far corners and the seats are reclined to the optimal listening position
the pods....I was able to get a deep stage or a wide stage..with my personal listening
I prefer a wider stage as it sounds more full to me
in a car I like the tweets off axis a bit...I like on axis if the tweeters are not 2ft in my face
some of the older longer cars with nice big kicks work alot better than something like
my minivan..for example Biggs Regal..there is a set of JBL 608gti components down
in the far corners and the seats are reclined to the optimal listening position
08-01-2009, 12:37 PM
#29
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 84
ok,i think i may be understanding more better. having the stage as further foward does not create depth. depth would be like a 3 dimensional thing,as was stated earlier drummer behind the singer. is this a safe assumption?
