Sub up front????
10-16-2004, 02:42 AM
#1
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Is it really that benificial?
I see many of the top competitor's cars using 8s 10s or even 12s in the dash. While I do admit that bass below 100hz is audibly directional in a car, is a sub in the dash really the answer?
I've been crossing over my rear mounted subs in below 50hz, and they are still slightly directional. The only answer I have to this is harmonics. Hamonics are present in most everything that vibrates and radiates audible energy.
Thoughts everyone?
Adam
I see many of the top competitor's cars using 8s 10s or even 12s in the dash. While I do admit that bass below 100hz is audibly directional in a car, is a sub in the dash really the answer?
I've been crossing over my rear mounted subs in below 50hz, and they are still slightly directional. The only answer I have to this is harmonics. Hamonics are present in most everything that vibrates and radiates audible energy.
Thoughts everyone?
Adam
10-16-2004, 06:45 AM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
if you want bass to sound like its up front you have to put woofers there. i think that more so than the bass being audible, you feel the wave(and dont forget about physco acoustics, if people know that there is woofers there they will think they hear bass coming from the back). have you ever put your hand near a woofer that is corner loaded in a house, put your hand a couple of feet away and you will feel what i mean, you can feel the difference in pressure, you can feel that bass wave. the harmonics you speak of really affect this wave thoery, take a 15 hz harmonic, although you cant hear it, the pressure wave is still there. in my car i also use 2 12" woofers in the back and have them crossed over at 31.5hz at 30db/octave and can still tell the bass is coming from the back, physco acoustics, partially, the pressure wave and chassis resonance partiall as well, just my 2 bits
10-16-2004, 07:15 AM
#4
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
I had my subs crossed over at 31.5hz too, and could still sense them. Most people that hear my system say that they can't, but I think that's because they are used to bass that is that strong being exremely audible from the rear.
I have never heard a car with a sub in the front, but I can relate to the pressure wave thing very well. It's partially why I went with smaller drivers in the rear deck instead of one large high displacement sub. The smaller drivers the pressure wave out more.
What driver/enclosure setup are you running in your dash Defro?
Adam
I have never heard a car with a sub in the front, but I can relate to the pressure wave thing very well. It's partially why I went with smaller drivers in the rear deck instead of one large high displacement sub. The smaller drivers the pressure wave out more.
What driver/enclosure setup are you running in your dash Defro?
Adam
10-16-2004, 07:25 AM
#5
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Posts: n/a
Of the cars I heard at finals last year, I would ssay that Gary Biggs, Scott Buwalda, and the guy with the red Monte Carlo that has the same components as Bryce had up front bass with no bass audibly coming from the rear, with rear mounted subs. I think Adam that if no one esle can here it yet you can, maybe you are just looking for an excuse to cut a big whole somewhere in the front of your car [img]tongue.gif[/img]
10-16-2004, 07:52 AM
#6
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i use 1 avi sls138 5.25" woofer in a vented box tunes to 35hz in the top center of my dash, i just changed from a avi 6.5" to this beand new 5.25" and was stunned at how much more output i got and how much lower the 5.25" got. dwvw doesnt biggs use a front mouonted woofer? i have never heard a car with woofers in the back that sounds like it comes from the front, is it out there, maybe
10-16-2004, 08:52 AM
#8
Originally posted by defro13:
i use 1 avi sls138 5.25" woofer in a vented box tunes to 35hz in the top center of my dash, i just changed from a avi 6.5" to this beand new 5.25" and was stunned at how much more output i got and how much lower the 5.25" got. dwvw doesnt biggs use a front mouonted woofer? i have never heard a car with woofers in the back that sounds like it comes from the front, is it out there, maybe
i use 1 avi sls138 5.25" woofer in a vented box tunes to 35hz in the top center of my dash, i just changed from a avi 6.5" to this beand new 5.25" and was stunned at how much more output i got and how much lower the 5.25" got. dwvw doesnt biggs use a front mouonted woofer? i have never heard a car with woofers in the back that sounds like it comes from the front, is it out there, maybe
10-16-2004, 04:01 PM
#10
When I heard Marc Turner's car, I found that the 12 mounted upfront brought a TON of clean,punchy bass up front, but it also brought rainbow effect with it, which is one of the advatages of T/A for him. Also, when I heard his car, I don't believe the other 4 12's mounted in the trunk were playing which would have a huge afftect on my perception of where the bass is coming from.
When I was listening to my van a while back, I posted about not having any midbass, and how much was missing from the sound. I started playing with it again about a week or so after, and found that adjusting the midrange crossover and adding an enclosure, while also adjusting the sub x-over greatly helped achieve that front end bass that were talking about.
I also found that gains greatly affect where the bass seems to be coming from, obviously if your sub is overpowering the front end, it will be very simple to tell where the sub is located, but if you can blend your subbass in with your midbass, your sub will start to become "invisible"(the way it should be).
In a properly tuned car with a 3 way set-up up front, sub location should already be invisible, or close to it. That's why I've jumped off the 2 way bandwagon.
When I was listening to my van a while back, I posted about not having any midbass, and how much was missing from the sound. I started playing with it again about a week or so after, and found that adjusting the midrange crossover and adding an enclosure, while also adjusting the sub x-over greatly helped achieve that front end bass that were talking about.
I also found that gains greatly affect where the bass seems to be coming from, obviously if your sub is overpowering the front end, it will be very simple to tell where the sub is located, but if you can blend your subbass in with your midbass, your sub will start to become "invisible"(the way it should be).
In a properly tuned car with a 3 way set-up up front, sub location should already be invisible, or close to it. That's why I've jumped off the 2 way bandwagon.
