Symetrical Tuning
what I've found worked in my last car's kicks was to point the woofers directly at the head of the opposite side passenger's head, and the tweets pointing directly in, but every vehicle's different, so that probly won't work this time. personally, I prefer tonality over imaging, because if it sounds like a fat guy with explosive diahrrea, but it's imaged perfectly, it still sounds like a fat guy with explosive dihrrea.
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it easier to get great tonality than it is to get great imaging. great speakers can do alot towards getting great tonality but great speakers wont help you as much towards great imaging, install becomes far more critical when attaining great imaging
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Well, I'm selfish. I want tonality and staging and imaging. It's hard to have it all. Even harder to do it with two seats good.
Of that list, tonality is the most important in my mind. What's the point of having all the rest if the tuba sounds like a dying walrus, etc, etc. So I like tonality above all. Then I want it all up on my dash at the windshield or further forward and from pillar to pillar at least. On the driver's side, I'd really like to get it outside on the mirror but have yet to accomplish that feat. Driver placement usually determines the fartherest left and right the sound will go, although there is a trick to go beyond. People have done it
What I've found is that the high frequency stuff is more sensitive to angles then PLD's. The highs seem to me to be more happy about intensity when staging them. I've made a set of tweeters walk across the dash by playing with L and R intensities.
Mids and higher midbass is a combination of PLD's and angles. This is the HARDEST part of the whole design and the reson why when you build, you start with this driver set. Nail this and you're gonna be a happy camper. Kick panels are so far the best place to go, although if this driver set is running in the lower mid-bass area, you can trap midbass under your dash if the dash has a large overhang and/or you have a big centre console. Also the design of the underside of the dash and the way to allows the sound wave to propagate out from under the dash is important.
Midbass is all about PLD's.
Subbass......... I want it coming from up front. I really want a dash mounted sub. I'm working on this.
Also, anything that vibrates or moves in essence becomes another driver in your system. That's bad. Sonic characteristics of vibrating plastics and other vehicle interior parts REALLY suck.
Ok, yes...... I'm building again. Well I started building again but now have stopped as we're moving our family in 7 weeks
Anyways, simple system. A-pillar mounted tweets firing across the dash in parallel with the front window (angled slightly upward), 6.5" in the kicks and a pair of 15" free-air in the rear deck. I'm also going to try and monkey with the installation of a mini sub somewhere in the dash......... first place I'm going to try is in the glovebox. I'm not expecting glory but I need to try this for myself. Nothing on the car is being cut up. The factory parts of the car will all remain untouched.
Expect to be done early next summer.
[ November 30, 2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]
Of that list, tonality is the most important in my mind. What's the point of having all the rest if the tuba sounds like a dying walrus, etc, etc. So I like tonality above all. Then I want it all up on my dash at the windshield or further forward and from pillar to pillar at least. On the driver's side, I'd really like to get it outside on the mirror but have yet to accomplish that feat. Driver placement usually determines the fartherest left and right the sound will go, although there is a trick to go beyond. People have done it
What I've found is that the high frequency stuff is more sensitive to angles then PLD's. The highs seem to me to be more happy about intensity when staging them. I've made a set of tweeters walk across the dash by playing with L and R intensities.
Mids and higher midbass is a combination of PLD's and angles. This is the HARDEST part of the whole design and the reson why when you build, you start with this driver set. Nail this and you're gonna be a happy camper. Kick panels are so far the best place to go, although if this driver set is running in the lower mid-bass area, you can trap midbass under your dash if the dash has a large overhang and/or you have a big centre console. Also the design of the underside of the dash and the way to allows the sound wave to propagate out from under the dash is important.
Midbass is all about PLD's.
Subbass......... I want it coming from up front. I really want a dash mounted sub. I'm working on this.
Also, anything that vibrates or moves in essence becomes another driver in your system. That's bad. Sonic characteristics of vibrating plastics and other vehicle interior parts REALLY suck.
Ok, yes...... I'm building again. Well I started building again but now have stopped as we're moving our family in 7 weeks
Anyways, simple system. A-pillar mounted tweets firing across the dash in parallel with the front window (angled slightly upward), 6.5" in the kicks and a pair of 15" free-air in the rear deck. I'm also going to try and monkey with the installation of a mini sub somewhere in the dash......... first place I'm going to try is in the glovebox. I'm not expecting glory but I need to try this for myself. Nothing on the car is being cut up. The factory parts of the car will all remain untouched.Expect to be done early next summer.
[ November 30, 2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Oh yeah.......... one seat only. When I'm relaxing and feeling the need to listen to music in my car, I don't want anyone else around messing with my environment. Passenger(s) just usually fak that whole experience up
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tonality however important, can be uninteresting if it doesnt have its 2 counterparts to compliment it, image and soundstage. to sacrifice the 2 for tonality seems counterproductive to good sound. the 3 need to all be compromised in a car to achive good sound. tonality is great, everything sounding as it should, but without some sort of desrirable image and stage its just a big ol blob o sound. a good question to ask is what do the people posting here think is the best compromise when tuning for both or 1 seat and why
Thread Starter
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
I got an easy one for you.
I'm finding the great imaging VERY distracting when driving my car. I hate to say it, but I may tune the system not to image when driving...
The more I tune my car, more I realize I don't know jack about what I'm doing. Kind of humbling to realize, but I think I really need to learn more about how music really sounds. At this point, I'm going to drag my Ipod into my car and compare the car to that. Sure it's not the highest of SQ to be working with, but if I can get it close that's a start.
Adam
I'm finding the great imaging VERY distracting when driving my car. I hate to say it, but I may tune the system not to image when driving...
The more I tune my car, more I realize I don't know jack about what I'm doing. Kind of humbling to realize, but I think I really need to learn more about how music really sounds. At this point, I'm going to drag my Ipod into my car and compare the car to that. Sure it's not the highest of SQ to be working with, but if I can get it close that's a start.
Adam
