Tuning (long)
10-17-2004, 10:32 PM
#32
Keith, Brandon -- I am not a sound engineer -- I have recorded two rock cds and a jazz demo as a vocalist -- I find the process of recording very interesting and I paid attention. Don't even get me started on the merits of "off the floor" vs. direct mic or the importance of preamps for various mics or 2" tape vs. digital, etc...
10-18-2004, 10:00 AM
#33
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 206
Spend 99% of your time on crossover points. This is where you WILL make or break your system.
If you have to use an eq and it looks like a roller coaster ride. You've done something major league wrong. Rip it out, and start again
[ October 18, 2004, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Impala Builder ]
If you have to use an eq and it looks like a roller coaster ride. You've done something major league wrong. Rip it out, and start again
[ October 18, 2004, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Impala Builder ]
10-18-2004, 10:04 AM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have been super busy lately and haven't had much time to post, I have a whole bunch of stuff in word but it got to be edited to be cohesive. I agree with Jamie as well, the first step of setting up crossover points is very important, after that setting gains should take only a few minutes with the right tools, and it should sound very good at that point and only require a few small tweks if you have an EQ.
10-18-2004, 10:26 AM
#35
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 206
Here's the exact steps when I do when tuning a car. Lets say it's a car that I built or designed so I don't have to go into learning the systems.
1: Raw crossover (just so nothing gets smoked)
2: Play pink noise on the cd player, and work all the way down the chain with my o-scope to ensure no clipping, and max signal output. When I get to the amps I measure output with no drivers connected ( I have a nice fluke 97 meter that
does this, not cheap...but worth it)
3: Reconnect all the drivers. I uses the IASCA set up and test cd for in phase out of phase. Adjust speaker polarity for best results.
4: Listen to the system full range (all drivers on) and get a referance of whats going on.
5: Shut downm mid and sub, listen to highs and adjust crossover point, and slope. Do this with mid alone also.
6: Listen to mid and highs and keep playing with crossover points.
7: Start bringing in sub bass, and adjust level, crossover point and slope as needed.
8: Get out the cd collection. If your ever in a car with me you'll see how fast I go through cd's. I have a collection that I always carry. Some cd I listen to for 10 sec's. A specific section of a song has a specific thing that I listen for.
9: While listening to these cd's I again keep adjusting crossover points, slopes, and band levels.
10: Once I get the tonality in the diamond (well inside the ball park..lol) if required time alignment of phase adjustment comes in. Band at a time. Time may effect tonality so once this is done, back to crossover for more tweeking.
This is where compromise comes in. It will most likley end up where one thing to fix a problem, creats another problem. You just have to pick which problem you can live with. Since the tuning I do is for competition it's down to which compromise will gain me the most points
11: If needed, and you can not get around it go to the eq to fix SMALL problems in frequency steering.
Which brings up another topic what is an EQ.
It's called an equaliser because it is to be used to "equalise" a signal. As in make left and right equal.
It's not called a " lack of freqency output compensator" or a " Fix your encloure problem processor"
It's designed to make the left and rigth equal. If your left and rigth signal output is so far out that you need to be dramatic and have 8-12db gains, or cuts then start again.
I use the IASCA set-up and test cd and play the mono track. It shows me exactly where I'm not "equalised" in my speaker output. If needed I'll adjust that freqency to reduce the output differance.
from thier it's alot of back and forth on small details, and balance of compromise.
Thats my tried and true method. I use this on all the car I work on.
[ October 18, 2004, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Impala Builder ]
1: Raw crossover (just so nothing gets smoked)
2: Play pink noise on the cd player, and work all the way down the chain with my o-scope to ensure no clipping, and max signal output. When I get to the amps I measure output with no drivers connected ( I have a nice fluke 97 meter that
does this, not cheap...but worth it)
3: Reconnect all the drivers. I uses the IASCA set up and test cd for in phase out of phase. Adjust speaker polarity for best results.
4: Listen to the system full range (all drivers on) and get a referance of whats going on.
5: Shut downm mid and sub, listen to highs and adjust crossover point, and slope. Do this with mid alone also.
6: Listen to mid and highs and keep playing with crossover points.
7: Start bringing in sub bass, and adjust level, crossover point and slope as needed.
8: Get out the cd collection. If your ever in a car with me you'll see how fast I go through cd's. I have a collection that I always carry. Some cd I listen to for 10 sec's. A specific section of a song has a specific thing that I listen for.
9: While listening to these cd's I again keep adjusting crossover points, slopes, and band levels.
10: Once I get the tonality in the diamond (well inside the ball park..lol) if required time alignment of phase adjustment comes in. Band at a time. Time may effect tonality so once this is done, back to crossover for more tweeking.
This is where compromise comes in. It will most likley end up where one thing to fix a problem, creats another problem. You just have to pick which problem you can live with. Since the tuning I do is for competition it's down to which compromise will gain me the most points
11: If needed, and you can not get around it go to the eq to fix SMALL problems in frequency steering.
Which brings up another topic what is an EQ.
It's called an equaliser because it is to be used to "equalise" a signal. As in make left and right equal.
It's not called a " lack of freqency output compensator" or a " Fix your encloure problem processor"
It's designed to make the left and rigth equal. If your left and rigth signal output is so far out that you need to be dramatic and have 8-12db gains, or cuts then start again.
I use the IASCA set-up and test cd and play the mono track. It shows me exactly where I'm not "equalised" in my speaker output. If needed I'll adjust that freqency to reduce the output differance.
from thier it's alot of back and forth on small details, and balance of compromise.
Thats my tried and true method. I use this on all the car I work on.
[ October 18, 2004, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Impala Builder ]
10-18-2004, 02:32 PM
#37
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 206
Because they are POS
Designing an eq that is effectivly mono is alot cheaper and easier than doing a separate left and right control.
Most car audio stuff is oem-market crap. You just have to know what is what. 90% of consumers have no clue, so they buy things that they see a cool ad for, or love the brand name, or thier "buddy" says is the best ect. Most use them as a bandaid, bass booster, ect ect. And you can tell by listening what cars have tons of additional processing going on and the problems it causes. For the street pounder that doesn't care........who cares
Since we are in the SQ section, I assume we all in here are trying to get the best sound out of our systems. Using the proper gear in the correct way is the road to your personal success (how ever you measure it)
[ October 18, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Impala Builder ]
Designing an eq that is effectivly mono is alot cheaper and easier than doing a separate left and right control.
Most car audio stuff is oem-market crap. You just have to know what is what. 90% of consumers have no clue, so they buy things that they see a cool ad for, or love the brand name, or thier "buddy" says is the best ect. Most use them as a bandaid, bass booster, ect ect. And you can tell by listening what cars have tons of additional processing going on and the problems it causes. For the street pounder that doesn't care........who cares
Since we are in the SQ section, I assume we all in here are trying to get the best sound out of our systems. Using the proper gear in the correct way is the road to your personal success (how ever you measure it)
[ October 18, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Impala Builder ]
10-18-2004, 09:00 PM
#40
8. "get out the cd collection"
What cd's do you use Jamie?
I'm a huge fan of using music that I'd actually listen to to tune a car....which is why I use almost everything from Pink Floyd to Metallica and Eric Clapton live to Verdi.
There's many songs that I also use for 10 seconds or less because I know the exactly what I'm listening for and where in the soundstage it SHOULD be coming from.
What cd's do you use Jamie?
I'm a huge fan of using music that I'd actually listen to to tune a car....which is why I use almost everything from Pink Floyd to Metallica and Eric Clapton live to Verdi.
There's many songs that I also use for 10 seconds or less because I know the exactly what I'm listening for and where in the soundstage it SHOULD be coming from.
