. . . I might have missed that physics class, but isn't that the fundamental difference between AC and DC - That alternating current vibrates back and forth while direct current flows . . . or are you turning my whole understanding upside down and telling me that both AC and DC vibrate . . . if that's the case, what is the difference? If DC also "vibrates" why doesn't DC have a rating in Hz?

 

Ok, lets not fight, plenty of room in our sandbox here. Thanks for kind words, John. The horse however will not be joining us, but at least we still have a nice rack to look at.

 

Thanks for your support. I was beginning to think I was fighting a futile battle.

Fuses, fuses everywhere
Power wire - Amplifier
I need a word that rhymes with fire
And also I must say with certain flair
I just don't seem to give a damn, or care!!!

---------DRUMROLL----------

A-N-Y-M-OOOOOOOOOOO-R-E!!!!!!!!!

Sasha

 

I'm just going to keep goading you two, simply for the laughter that ensues when I get home from work and read your creatively written posts. lol

Awwww.... fawck. I'm tearing up here.

It's just a fuse Sasha, I don't know why you're being so ANL about it.

I had to get one last one in there.

I can't stop laughing.

So here's the long-of-the-short of it. Took her car today to FM Audio, for what should have resulted in her KDCx592 head-unit installation. They didn't have the mounting plate in, and couldn't do the install. Apparently I was called earlier in the week regarding the issue, but no message was left on my cell phone. And the last call I received from the store was on Sunday, according to my phone. WEIRD.
I called my foul-mouthed love-making partner to let her know what the deal was. She ended up calling them and managed to squeeze another 10% off what is already a pretty good deal. $220 for the deck, $40 for the wiring harness/hardware kit, and they had a deal on free install. So a deck that is usually around $265 by itself before tax, will cost her a grand total of $275 after install and taxes. FM called while I was at work, said they now have the necessary piece, and will fit us in tomorrow. So they handled it pretty well. I guess, considering that the install was booked on Sunday, the 23rd. You'd think, in 5 days they'd be able to have things in place for a basic install.

While waiting for the guys to figure out what was going on, I listened to a pair of JL Audio C5's. At $550 for the pair, I found them to be less impressive than the Hertz we've been listening to. When I said that, I was told Hertz are "overpriced Japanese crap". He went on to explain that the sound boards they use are $15000-$20000 worth of handy-work to make the speakers sound as good as they do. Also stated that each speaker is in its own chamber, and that there's a port on the back side - which accounts for their bass production - and that we could never reproduce the same sound in a car door, without extensive work. I mentioned that I heard more oomph on the low-end frequencies on the Hertz. Some of it could be attributed to the fact that the JL 450/4V2 amp they were hooked up to does not have an option to run without a filter. So it was set at 50Hz, with its 12dB slope. Don't get me wrong, they sounded really good. I just wouldn't put a price tag on them at $150 more than the Hertz.
Tomorrow I'm going back with my own CD's (bride-to-be had taken all mine when she used my car to get herself to work) and will be better equipped to make a judgment call, since then I'd have some sort of reference.

One last thing, they have a Tsunami brand Amp install kit there, good for 850W systems, according to the packaging. $99. Worth getting? Is that a decent brand? Probably not. I figure I'd keep the cable I got from Zotman, and sell the wire out of the kit back to them. It has an ANL fuse, but I'm pretty sure it was a 150A unit. Let's have a look.
Link to install kit

Yep. 150A ANL fuse for a 4 gauge wire. Should stay away from this one I guess.

 

No

Both AC & DC "vibrate" through the wire. I am not talking about the cycles, or "reverse" flow of AC, I'm talking at the atomic level, electrons, etc.

Electricity is really freaky stuff. For example lets take an electron which could be called a point object, but really isn't. Think of an electron as a ball of cotton, or cloud, with different probabilities. The Electron could be anywhere in that "cloud". It "vibrates" from one part of the cloud to the other.

Try "tunneling" on for size. Example below.

Take INTEL that makes chips. The gate isolators on the chips are 5 or 6 atomic levels thick, if our cloud containing the electron is wider than the gate material, it can be on both sides of the gate at once, so it can just "APPEAR" on one side or the other...MAGIC!!

Anyway, I remember that example from reading it years ago when i got interested in how electricity really works.

I remember other small bits here and there, but I'm not good enough to really discuss it on an intelligent level.

TRAGIC: Your last comment....I ain't rising to the bait dude

Cheers!

John

 

Well, TragicMagic, you should be listening to speakers with the settings close to those you will be running, if possible. How can you compare speakers sounding with different crossover points and make fair judgments? There are other variables too, but the more sets you try the better you become at finding the speakers that sound best to you. I for one, do not like even top of the line JL set, not the sound for my ears, I never heard Hertz in person, but would love to hear the Milles, and I have god vibes about that set. If I had to pick between the two without listening, I would easily grab the High Energies.

Not sure how badly you need the amp install kit. If you're gonna do it yourself, then maybe, but if the shop will do the install, they have all the items in bulk, so you can custom pick whatever suites your needs. Tsunami is a decent brand, I think they are a sub company of JBL or something. I would have to say that kit is fine, but I would like to make sure if it is a standard awg, which I cannot tell by looking at the website, as it may not be, and is actually smaller, and could be the equivalent of 5awg. Knukonceptz for example make their wires bigger and their 4awg is actually around 3awg, and so on with different companies. Cheap brands write 4 gauge, but you get a smaller wire. You could probably tell if the jacket is too thick in proportion to the copper. Also, I cant tell if its Oxygen Free Copper, as it does not list it, so the kit may be fine, or it may be crap. You just have to learn a bit more t make that judgment just by looking at the wire. Your call. Looks decent from here. Things to look for is awg and OFC on the wire itself.

 

Gotcha. Yeah, I understand that there are a lot of variables that go into how a particular speaker will sound. And a big one is the frequencies that are able to reach it, and the slope of the cross-over. I would personally want an with a 6dB slope, and a cross-over adjustable to match the frequency range of the speaker... Oh wait, I do have an amp like that! lol The steeper the slope, the more quickly the filtered frequencies are "cut out". So these JL speakers would probably sound better on the DLS amp, with the HPF, or without. Simply because this amp will allow more low-end frequencies to be reproduced by the speakers. I actually liked the sound of the $330 Alpine Type R's more than the JL's. Didn't find them too bright, and they had more bottom end. Perhaps not matching the clarity of the JL's though.

I'm looking into a pair of MBQ Reference as well. Its what I have in my car. I know they sound really nice. And their frequency range is rated at 38Hz and up, while the JL's is 48Hz. Even though I wouldn't send that low of a sound to either of them, I think the MBQ would be able to handle the deep notes a little more efficiently than the JL, resulting in a 'fuller' bottom end.

 

I have to stop you from thinking that crossing at freq match of the speaker is ok. Way wrong. Better indicator is speaker FS on the spec sheet, and the rule of thumb is doubling it, not as critical for the mids as it is for the tweets for your information.

However, I recommend you cross like this, some people may tell you different, but I do not like flat response entirely, and prefer a little freq bump in the midbass area, thus these recommendations.

Cross your fronts on HPF at 70-80hz/12db, and match your sub LPF crossover point to wherever you decide to cross your fronts whether 70 or 80 but use 24db slope. Also use subsonic/infrared filter on the sub and set it at 25hz.

Do not go lower than 60-70hz on the HPF, cause the speakers will not reproduce good sound at higher volume with these settings. Too much xcursion from the bottom end will shroud the upper midrange which needs to resonate at faster rate, and by speaker trying to reproduce the midbass with slow and high xcursion, the midrange will suffer. These are just physical limitations of speaker design, know them, and avoid the consequences.

Always use HPF and LPF, cause these speakers are designed for that. Do not try to force component speakers to have to much bottom end, thats what the sub is for.

Stick to High Energies. Type R is pure garbage in comparison. Once you set the speakers properly you cannot compare crap like that to Hertz. The crappy speakers tend to sound good with mediocre settings, and good speakers do not sound good if set improperly, but once you tune them right, they will be very nice, not much you can do with garbage speakers.

 

What would you do in the case of our DLS amp? The high-pass is selectable between between 50-150Hz/6dB, low-pass is 40-90Hz/12dB, and subsonic is 25Hz/18dB. These are specs taken right out of the manual.

We wouldn't necessarily cross the speakers that low, but seeing that the MBQ have a range that extends into the deeper frequencies should let me assume that they can handle a little more of bottom end. Having a slope that is shallow at 6dB might enable us to use the 80Hz filter, without sacrificing too much down low. She'll prefer less volume for a fuller sound.
I never considered that having these speakers play frequencies that are rather low, will inhibit their ability to play 'normal' frequencies with as much precision. Makes perfect sense, though.

Anyway, her deck is installed. This unit alone easily added to the quality of the OEM speakers. I am still in awe of how much better it sounds in there. We can't wait to get the speakers, sub, and amp all hooked up.

What does the "speaker FS" refer to?

 

Do the crossing how I described before. According to DLS manual? Ok. High pass at only 6db looks like a mistake.

Do this

HPF the front speakers at 70hz/12db(6db if there is no choice, but I highly doubt it - 12db is better). Do not go lower, cause your speakers are not very expensive and may not be happy crossed lower. FS is resonance frequency of the speakers, and at this freq it starts to resonate, and overall sound is affected. LPF the sub at 70hz/24db(12db if there is no choice, but at 12 you may have to drop the LPF 10hz lower). Listen to the system. Then try setting the LPF at 60hz, and see which sound you like best between the two overall. Leave the subsonic at 25hz.

Assuming that the speakers can do better bottom end, cause the specs say they can play lower is a mistake. Many speakers can have better bottom end over those which say on the manual could go lower. Freq response on the low end is most likely fictional and just for rhetorical show. FS is more important. Your speakers manual may state that FS is around 60hz.