A while back I decided to go with mids in my kicks. At the time I was concerned about the phase of the mid in relation to the midbass mounted in the door panel. It's obviously crossed the minds of a few others on this forum.

I see 2 sides to this topic, but both rely on one common result; compromise. One idea is to set up all the drivers to be phase coherent from one listening position. This places a very narrow sweet spot in one location for the listener. Now this would be fine if you stayed in the same position all the time. I drive a pretty comfortable car, but I shift around a bit when I drive. That sweet spot isn't always going to be where I am. Then there is the poor passenger, obligated to nod when you ask if it sounds good. Of course at this point they are wondering why their stock system sounds better than your mega dollar system. I like to share my music, I'm sure a few others here do too.

The second option is a shared compromise between the passenger and the driver. While I'd love to have absolute perfect phase response in my system, I'm going to have to side with my passenger's ears. I'm sure that a good many of you have a significant other that supports your activities in this hobby. Why not make it more enjoyable for them too.

I've come across an error in my thinking with respect the the phasing of the mid in the kick and and midbass in the door. I had assumed that from the driver's position, this would be a probelm. Having measured the approximate distance and calculated the wavelength at the cross-over freqency, I thought that I was going to have the mid about 100 degrees out of phase.

Well smart *** here didn't think about the passenger's side. The pathlength from the midrange and midbass drivers on the passenger side is almost identicle, thus no phase problem.

Again, I'm new at this car audio stuff so forgive my ignorance. I'm going to stop theororizing(is that a word?) and start experimenting. After all, isn't that what makes this hobby so fun?

Hope my ideas help someone come up with a better explanation. Hopefully someone a bit more experienced that poor young me. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Adam

 

...theorizing. [img]smile.gif[/img]

And you say you're new at this??

Keep everything the way it is and do a right hand drive conversion! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

Does your crossover/deck/what have you have phase correction features? Try to delay the right side or advance the left side. Possibly would be better to delay the right a bit. I'm "new" at this sort of thing too. It's all theory. Hit and miss - trial and error, man.

 

Chadxton,

For someone so scarry, you sure are funny.

Yes I do have time delay in my head unit.(Alpine DVA-7996) But I want to get the system sounding as good as I can BEFORE I use it. I'm running a phase control module in my front stage amp as well. It allows from 0 to 360 degrees of delay. While I'd love to go active and run 2 more of these amps with the phase control modules on my 3-ways, I can't afford it. BTW the phase control module is to align the subwoofer precisely with the front stage. It makes it sooooo tight.

Adam

 

I'm no expert at these things but firstly, I assume that you're trying to set up a sounds-good-from-two-front-seats-vehicle ?!?!?!?

Going with that, GOOD LUCK with trying to get it setup really nicely if you're putting midbass in the doors........... in the lower midrange and midbass frequencies, the PLD is very important. If you're going into stock door locations with midbass and trying to get a good setup without any processing AND trying for good sound from both front seats, you're going to be having a lot of fun unless your PLD for your midbass is less then 12" (the apparent magic number)!!!!

It's all compromise (sp?). And if you start going to heavy into the theory side of things you find that everything you touch upon opens a whole new can of worms in the car sound environment.

I'd suggest you post this on CARSOUND.COM where there are some really heavy hitters on the car audio scene (as well!!)............ no offense to anyone here BTW. Just to get some differing opinions.

 

I prefer to post here, the ego's are much smaller and the brains I'll argue are just as sharp. That means you too dawgsbreakfast!

If some of you don't know, I'm separated from my car for long periods of time. Usually from 5 to 7 weeks at a time for my job. This forum lets me live a little car audio without my car audio. Just watching the sunrise here in Frankfurt, it's beautiful! I'll be home to start playing today! [img]smile.gif[/img]

 

OH YES IT DOES Paul. Mid bass in doors.......... you may as well stay stock with a cassette deck. Ha, ha, ha............. (joking). Come-on Paul-y, put up your dukes....... or is that Dukks !!!

Yes, a lot of wanna-be too on CARSOUND, but there are a few really good people over there that REALLY know their stuff. And lately it seems that some good knowledge (previously very hidden) is leaking out. Mind you, I find that the information sort of gets "smeared" across all the forums as a lot of cross travellers. And of note, I'm definitely no expert. I'm still learning.......... everyday day someone seems to post something that I didn't know or that finally clarifies something for me. Like two days ago, I finally found out how to turn off the flashing screen crap on my Pioneer P9 !!!! Manuals, there are manuals when you buy this stuff ????????? But that would mean I have to read them....... NOT!!!

Back to the topic at hand............

I think it's about finding out what is best installation wise so that you know what/where it should be optimally and then backing it off to what you can practically do. If that means doors, then that's where you have to be. Yes mids can steer, but depending on your x-over points between the mid and midbass, it can get ugly and all rainbow-effect-sh!tty with some vocal and other tracks, especially with some jazz tunes.

This past weekend I listened to a PU truck that had 5.25" and tweet in the dash and 12" sub in the centre console. In the mid to upper frequecy ranges, this truck was spectacular technically. But I noticed that the lower frequency information was just not imaging/staging properly and was pulling back from the dash and totally unfocused. It took away from the listening experience as everything else was so good. It was too bad, but to me, it means that everything is important "IF" your trying to NAIL it. AND that's the most frustrating thing about car audio. Setup and placement is so critical.........

All this being said, I sort of know what needs to be done to "nail" it, but my truck still sounds like crap. I have decent gear and all the processing I need to fix things where necessary, but still the elusive prize of sonic nervana eludes me I think it's the truck.......... the truck is junk. I can't be me. No way................

 

Yeah Tom, sell that glorified European mall-commuter and get yourself a decent ride. X5's are good for nuttin' but getting the wife to and fro from soccer practice in luxury [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ October 17, 2003, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: SUX 2BU ]

 

Tom didn't you say you drive an X5.....

Yeah, your right it's got to be the vehicle. My BMW sounds like garbage too. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I'm going ot Radio Shack today to get some real car audio help.

Adam