how not to use nitrous...
08-18-2003, 09:47 PM
#21
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 747
You are wrong because in both setups the pistons pushs the exhaust gases out (in the 4 stroke). The turbo uses that to create boost and it doesn't take much energy to get that impeller to move. A turbo does get heat from the exhaust, but you might not know this but a supercharger does make heat to. Compressing the air does create heat. About "turbo are limited to fuel economy" yes stock turbo systems are by the computer but that is for the safty of the engine (so they don't have to put in better parts in and still get good power) But turbo charger's and super-charger's are ment to compress air so you can put more fuel into the engine to make more power that's all. If you plug any exhaust and it will stall. (a friends grandfather started his car (in the winter) and backed into a snow back and stalled his car and couldn't start it until he cleared the snow out his tail pipe) The reason why they have bigger exhaust, is the fact you put more air/fuel in, you have to be able to get it out.
08-18-2003, 10:22 PM
#22
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 99
Well, its about time a made my own account instead of just using mao's.
Anyway, you are right about the piston having to push the exhaust gases out, and that taking power no matter what, but with a blower, the only thing it has to do is move it down a huge tube; a turbo causes backpressure that prevents valve overlap from letting the intake pressure from pusing out the last of the exhaust. a blower allows for this to happen, by creating more intake pressure than back-pressure. a turbo cannot make more intake pressure than it makes backpressure, (did you take physics in highschool?) and therefore cannot remove this exhaust, which cannot burn and makes the engine compress more air than it can burn.
The heat a blower produces within itself from friction is very minimal, so the only heat in the air is from being compressed; and even this is not too bad. The heat that a turbo puts in to the intake air is way more because the hot exhaust runs right next to the cold air, and the turbo itself is one cast piece, allowing for lots of heat transfer. A turbo does allow for an intercooler, and they do work well if installed correctly, (as in a subaru wrx, the hood scoop cools the intercooler) but a centrifugal blower can also be intercooled, as it is basically a turbo conected to a fan belt instead of the hot exhaust manifold/header, or the backpressure, or the turbo lag, or the extra oil lines.
btw, what are you apprenticing in exactly, carpentry? [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]
Anyway, you are right about the piston having to push the exhaust gases out, and that taking power no matter what, but with a blower, the only thing it has to do is move it down a huge tube; a turbo causes backpressure that prevents valve overlap from letting the intake pressure from pusing out the last of the exhaust. a blower allows for this to happen, by creating more intake pressure than back-pressure. a turbo cannot make more intake pressure than it makes backpressure, (did you take physics in highschool?) and therefore cannot remove this exhaust, which cannot burn and makes the engine compress more air than it can burn.
The heat a blower produces within itself from friction is very minimal, so the only heat in the air is from being compressed; and even this is not too bad. The heat that a turbo puts in to the intake air is way more because the hot exhaust runs right next to the cold air, and the turbo itself is one cast piece, allowing for lots of heat transfer. A turbo does allow for an intercooler, and they do work well if installed correctly, (as in a subaru wrx, the hood scoop cools the intercooler) but a centrifugal blower can also be intercooled, as it is basically a turbo conected to a fan belt instead of the hot exhaust manifold/header, or the backpressure, or the turbo lag, or the extra oil lines.
btw, what are you apprenticing in exactly, carpentry? [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]
08-19-2003, 02:01 AM
#23
turbo's actually use the heat of the expanding gasses,not just the exhaust flow.ever hear a diesel spool up as more fuel is added.aside from the added back pressure turbo's take very little hp to make hp, as opposed to blowers/centrifugal chargers(belt drive). belt drive have instant gratification by means of instant torque benefits,but turbo's need to spool to some degree,vnt(variable nozzle, ceramic, and bi-turbo reduce lag.anyways,a motor built to take high boost pressures will continue to make more power as long as the fuel mixture is mantained,and detonation is curbed(specialty fuels,electronic advance controls).. i'm currently building a 300zx TT for my friend, it will able to produce a dependable 700hp 
,the car as it sits with current mods will make 425 hp,but because of the time it takes to build boost. my 69 valiant will spank it up until 120 mph.the zx currently does 200mph,my valiant does not 
........i am considering adding a few mitsu t-05,and propane to my S.B. mopar [img]tongue.gif[/img] ,and work on its aerodynamics, BUT.. car audio is my thing right now [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] 
[ August 19, 2003, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: Loud Brown Kicker Colt ]
,the car as it sits with current mods will make 425 hp,but because of the time it takes to build boost. my 69 valiant will spank it up until 120 mph.the zx currently does 200mph,my valiant does not ........i am considering adding a few mitsu t-05,and propane to my S.B. mopar [img]tongue.gif[/img] ,and work on its aerodynamics, BUT.. car audio is my thing right now [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [ August 19, 2003, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: Loud Brown Kicker Colt ]
08-19-2003, 08:44 AM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
I agree totally the technology makes a difference
but it works on big cube v8's too
thanks to new technology there are heads now made for big block dodges that allow them to make 700hp and still run on pump gas and be streetable
and that's without forced induction or nitrous .........and that's with a lot of tourque too [img]smile.gif[/img]
for those that question torque .......take a big block dodge for a drive sometime .......you'll see what all the fuss is about [img]smile.gif[/img]
but it works on big cube v8's too
thanks to new technology there are heads now made for big block dodges that allow them to make 700hp and still run on pump gas and be streetable
and that's without forced induction or nitrous .........and that's with a lot of tourque too [img]smile.gif[/img]
for those that question torque .......take a big block dodge for a drive sometime .......you'll see what all the fuss is about [img]smile.gif[/img]
08-19-2003, 09:40 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Wow the misinformation in this post is amazing. I'm not going to get into the physics of turbo's versus superchargers but lets just say the advantages a turbo has over supercharging is that it allows more overall hp whereas a supercharger has no lag, those are the main differences.
08-19-2003, 09:48 AM
#26
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 747
Ok a turbo does a have a alot of backpressure with out a waste gate, but thats why they have waste gates to remove alot of the backpressure. It will burn for the fact of the computer. it moniters the fuel/air ratio and fixes it for the 14 to 1 ratio. About the heat in a super-charge I know the only heat ceated is from friction, but if you are running it for a long time all there is to get rid of the heat is fin's and that doesn't do as good of a job as an intercooler. Yeah a supercharger can have one but the alot of them can't really because they only go stright into the engine. I know the the turbo-charger and a super-charger are the same but uses two differant way's of driving and thats why it's up to the person to decide what they want for there ride.
dodgeram: there is not only the pistons but the comnputer is a great thing for a can (but it's even better once you re-program it!!!)
btw, I'm apprenticing to be a mechanic
dodgeram: there is not only the pistons but the comnputer is a great thing for a can (but it's even better once you re-program it!!!)
btw, I'm apprenticing to be a mechanic
08-19-2003, 11:28 AM
#27
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Posts: n/a
Well they are basically the same. They are both systems used to force air (forced induction) into your car's cylinders to increase the amount of fuel that can be burned. This increases power and makes your car faster. They increase air pressure by about 50% or so.
The difference is in how they are powered. The turbocharger is powered by the exhaust expelled from your car's engine. The supercharger is powered by a belt attatched to your car's engine just as your car's alternator or water pump works.
The advantage of the supercharger is that it can translate power to the engine a little quicker than a turbo can. Since the turbo relies on the car's exhaust to spin its turbines there is a slight hesitation before they can come up to speed and force air into the compressor. This is reffered to as turbo lag. The supercharger will begin to move air as fast as the engine begins acceleration of RPMs. This gives a slight (were talking fractions of seconds, which means the world on a drag strip) advantage to the supercharger.
The disadvantage is that the supercharger relies on the engine which does add to the resistance against the same engine it is offering increase air flow to. Again this is very slight but a difference from the turbo which uses the exhaust which is always there either with or without a turbo.
hey look at me....i almost sound like i know what im talking about [img]tongue.gif[/img]
[ August 19, 2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Back-2-Bassiks ]
The difference is in how they are powered. The turbocharger is powered by the exhaust expelled from your car's engine. The supercharger is powered by a belt attatched to your car's engine just as your car's alternator or water pump works.
The advantage of the supercharger is that it can translate power to the engine a little quicker than a turbo can. Since the turbo relies on the car's exhaust to spin its turbines there is a slight hesitation before they can come up to speed and force air into the compressor. This is reffered to as turbo lag. The supercharger will begin to move air as fast as the engine begins acceleration of RPMs. This gives a slight (were talking fractions of seconds, which means the world on a drag strip) advantage to the supercharger.
The disadvantage is that the supercharger relies on the engine which does add to the resistance against the same engine it is offering increase air flow to. Again this is very slight but a difference from the turbo which uses the exhaust which is always there either with or without a turbo.
hey look at me....i almost sound like i know what im talking about [img]tongue.gif[/img]
[ August 19, 2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Back-2-Bassiks ]
08-19-2003, 01:07 PM
#28
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 747
yeah Back-2-Bassiks it does almost sound like you know what you are talking about [img]tongue.gif[/img] But there is one thing most people don't know about a turbo/super chargers is if you are putting more than 6 pounds of boost in. you will need new pistons if you don't want to buy a new engine because of the compress ratio. I forget how much compress 1 pound of boost adds, but I know if you don't want to put in alot of money on the engine then keep the boost down.
08-19-2003, 01:22 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yeah i know, some cars cant even take more than 3 or 4 psi before the pistons crap out, for example the 94-present Cavaliers you add more than 4psi on stock pistons and push arms you better pray to god everytime you hit that gas 'cause they're gonna fold at anytime.
