I know this will be somewhat off topic, but I was hoping someone can offer some enlightenment.

My dad, and I were trying to fix an outlet, but for some reason wer couldn't cut the power to it. So we started investigating. So here is the Scnenaro.

There is a ganged breaker 40amp that goes to a sub panel, that powers the a/c and 2 bedrooms. However besides the wire that goes to the sub panel there is a wire that comes out of it, that goes into the transformer for the door bell. The other terminal of the doorbell goes to another transformer. (Both transformers outputs are wired together) From the second terminal of the second transformer, a pigtail comes off of it, that is connected to a maratte (sp?) This connection has 3 leads. One that goes to the transformer, One that goes to the neutral bus bar (To complete the circuit for the door bell I assume) and the last one goes to another 15amp breaker. This breaker is a bedroom circuit. (This is why we couldn't cut the power as it is powered from two breakers)

On these 2 circuits What is the load that would flip the breaker. My dad thinks it would be 55 amps, but I think it would be 40amps. The two circuits are wired in a parallel circuit. The other thing we would like to know, is what is the purpose of wiring it like this, and why the two trnsformers for the doorbell. As well, is this dangerous? Is it against the electrical code in sask? (would anyone know this?)

Thank-you and I hope I made this all clear, but I'll try to give more information if it is needed.

Tlake

 

sounds like sombody should fix it

 

This is some messed up sounding sh*t. OK, can we eliminate the sub-panel from the equation as it doesn't seem to be part of the problem? You're saying that the double pole 40 amp breaker is feeding the sub-panel AND has another circuit paralleled off of it?

It sounds like you have two transformers wired in series, but what really makes no sense is the marrette joint you've described. You say that one wire is from the transformer, one wire is your neutral and one wire goes back to a 15 amp breaker? That would be a dead short. The hot wire is joined directly to the neutral wire in your description.

I don't think that paralleling two circuits under one breaker is code in ANY province...and the dead short is almost definately against code. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Seriously though, that marrette joint you described MUST be wrong...look at it again, and see if you can draw up a diagram. I tried to draw one from your description...but it makes no sense.

 

I took a couple of pictures of the circuits in question, however I have no way to host them, can some lend me a hand in hosting?

Thanks

 

I'd either find out the proper way that it should be wired.... or call a professional to take a look.... sounds like it was a hack installation job to me...

But monkeying with your homes electrical when you don't know what you are doing can be hazerdous to your health...

 

I have no problem on fixing it. I have done a lot of electrical work in the past, and I was going to become an electrician at one point. I was just asking the theory behind it, and maybe some opinions on why it is wired like that.

If you wire two different breakers in a parallel circuit, I assume that it would trip at the load of the largest breaker (40 amps), or as my dad put it. Would it not use the path of least resistance, therefore maxing out both breakers before either of them would trip, thus, making it 55 amps?

And what is with the doorbell transformers? did they do that because the original transformer they used didn't have enough of an output that instead of putting in a bigger one, they put in a second one instead, and wire them in parallel, doubling the capacity?

Thank-you

[ January 16, 2005, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Tlake ]

 

40 amps is thre overcurrent, yes. and the 2 transformers are there in parallel because one would not supply the current for the doorbell (larger transformers are available, but I guess they didn't know that)

The breakers aren't in parallel, they're in series. The 40 amp is the main breaker, so ALL the current has to pass through that breaker, 40 amps is the maximum for that panel, unless you upgrade the wiring and the breaker.

even if they were in parallel, 40 amps is all you would get because the current going through each breaker would be equal, therefore the 15 amp breaker would trip out at 15 amps. At that point, the 40 amp breaker would go from carrying 15 amps to carrying 30 amps, leaving the 40 amp to be the only one that's on, tripping out at 40 amps.

Edit: and Yes, I'm an electrician.

[ January 16, 2005, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Sassmaster ]

 

Thank-you for the clarification. That is what I thought, however I just wanted to confirm my suspicions from an expert.

Any idea why they would put the breakers in series like that? I should be able to fix it then, as the 15 amp breaker is for two bedrooms, with little kids living in them, and my parents really didn't want them on a 40 amp circuit.

 

if, under one marrette, there was a wire connecting a transformer, a breaker and the neutral, there would be a dead short and the breaker would trip.

the 40 amp feeds the whole panel, or at least it shoud.... email me the pics @ gamekingpin@hotmail.com