Cooked H2?!?!
04-14-2005, 09:39 AM
#11
500 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 756
[img]graemlins/jawdrop.gif[/img]
Well... They say it's **** & abuse. I'm thinkin' that old XTR900 may be responsible, but the sub did live for 10 months after all it's problems. They can't say what was wrong with the old XTR900 amp, yet they say it couldn't be at fault. Ya, that makes sense...
Needless to say, I'm not to happy. I'm not choked, but I'm not happy.
They'll give me a new one for 50% off, which is still over $300 beans, or a 15 for 20% off. He said my amp is to small for a 15 though, so I guess I won't go that way.
However, I bet I could get two of their P series 12in. subs for about the same price, and they'd pop right into my box with a new baffle... or even get 4 $100 subs of some type, and build a second box...
I dunno, can't decide. What would YOU do?
Well... They say it's **** & abuse. I'm thinkin' that old XTR900 may be responsible, but the sub did live for 10 months after all it's problems. They can't say what was wrong with the old XTR900 amp, yet they say it couldn't be at fault. Ya, that makes sense...
Needless to say, I'm not to happy. I'm not choked, but I'm not happy.
They'll give me a new one for 50% off, which is still over $300 beans, or a 15 for 20% off. He said my amp is to small for a 15 though, so I guess I won't go that way.
However, I bet I could get two of their P series 12in. subs for about the same price, and they'd pop right into my box with a new baffle... or even get 4 $100 subs of some type, and build a second box...
I dunno, can't decide. What would YOU do?
04-14-2005, 09:54 AM
#12
Aren't those subs rated for considerably more than the XTR900 could put out?
Unless your gains were stupid high you should have had no problems.
If it was a problem with the gains then I believe they would have been able to tell that.
I dunno, I wouldn't take no for an answer. Or at least not so easily.
I'd want some sort of an explanation it is their amp and sub so they should be able to answer everything in great detail. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Unless your gains were stupid high you should have had no problems.
If it was a problem with the gains then I believe they would have been able to tell that.
I dunno, I wouldn't take no for an answer. Or at least not so easily.
I'd want some sort of an explanation it is their amp and sub so they should be able to answer everything in great detail. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
04-14-2005, 05:21 PM
#13
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 34
Given the choice, I'd buy TAD woofers. They sound superb, their engineering is beyond reproach, and the build quality (inside and out) is so far superior to other drivers that it makes you wonder what the other manufacturers are thinking.(and charging for) I like the specs too. Nothing contrived by any tech-ignorant marketing department. No ILS numbers. Take a look. It's all good! And yes, the 97db/w/m sensitivity is real.TAD 1602 Pro Subwoofer
04-14-2005, 06:03 PM
#14
Dude that is some lame ****... no way that amp was overpowering the sub thermally... now if you were slamming the suspension and tore the leads out of the cone or something... thats one thing... but it dosen't sound that way to me...
Even if it was I would think they might still be able to help you out... What is up with not offering recones ? that just plain sucks IMO..
If you ask me its either a bad solder joint on the leads or they burned off under the dust cap.. or its possible the coil shorted, but that usally dosen't happen to often unless you are feeding a sub silly amounts of power for short periods of time... Bottom line is that I would chalk this up to a defective subwoofer from what you've said...
Get these sobs to ship the sub to me and Ill shoot ya some cash for it... Ill probably have it working in 1h... [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
[ April 14, 2005, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Haunz ]
Even if it was I would think they might still be able to help you out... What is up with not offering recones ? that just plain sucks IMO..
If you ask me its either a bad solder joint on the leads or they burned off under the dust cap.. or its possible the coil shorted, but that usally dosen't happen to often unless you are feeding a sub silly amounts of power for short periods of time... Bottom line is that I would chalk this up to a defective subwoofer from what you've said...
Get these sobs to ship the sub to me and Ill shoot ya some cash for it... Ill probably have it working in 1h... [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
[ April 14, 2005, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Haunz ]
04-14-2005, 06:54 PM
#15
500 Watt CAFz'r
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 756
Ya I looked at the leads back when it was still here. There are no leads, that I could see... The spiders hook directly to the back of the wire terminals. I couldn't tell that the coils were melted, but the cone was still fine, had full travel, no scraping, etc.
They've already told me that setting the gain to high would do it. One of the guys in Cali' even sent me a "setting gains properly" document he has pre-made ready to go on his hard drive. Have I had my gain set to high? I wouldn't think so, I'm pretty damn carefull about that. Before all my Orion stuff I had a Kenwood 250w RMS 4ohm sub driven by a Kenwood 300wx1 amp (at 4). For two or three solid years, minimum 20 hours a week, up to 30 and 35 hours a week at times. And towards the end, I beat the hell out of that sub, I wasn't nice to it. It lived through it all and it took 900 watts of Orion XTR power to kill it. I AM nice to my Orion stuff, and it goes kablooey.
And the old XTR900 amp. I bought it new, but four years old, out of a clearance shelf, since it was a discontinued amp. This is when I had stinky smells in my van, when I had the XTR900. They messed with it for a month, in my vehicle, on their bench, with other subs not just mine, etc. etc. and they couldn't tell me why that circuit kept heating up. So I gave up, paying a few hundred dollars to upgrade to a 1200d. THEY didn't say anything like "oh sorry since we can't fix it we'll give ya a better deal on the upgrade" back then.
So then I ran this H2 sub off my 1200d for the last 10 months. A few comps last summer, and one burp night a month before it died. The day it died, it hadn't even been driven hard in a week. No smells in 10 months, and it dies? Am I just one unlucky _______ or what?
Ya... $320 is a lot, considering I was told when I bought it that I could "almost never" destroy it. How much does reconing cost? Maybe I should get them to ship it back to me and get it reconed? How's the quality, sq, spl, etc. of reconing an H2, is it the same, better, or worse, than original?
'Course... they have already ripped it apart, to see what "I" did to it. Probably wrecked it even further than they should, or crushed it already knowing my luck...
The timing for them to be rumaging around in my pockets couldn't be worse either... A hundred bucks, even 150, I could eat I guess. But $320?
They've already told me that setting the gain to high would do it. One of the guys in Cali' even sent me a "setting gains properly" document he has pre-made ready to go on his hard drive. Have I had my gain set to high? I wouldn't think so, I'm pretty damn carefull about that. Before all my Orion stuff I had a Kenwood 250w RMS 4ohm sub driven by a Kenwood 300wx1 amp (at 4). For two or three solid years, minimum 20 hours a week, up to 30 and 35 hours a week at times. And towards the end, I beat the hell out of that sub, I wasn't nice to it. It lived through it all and it took 900 watts of Orion XTR power to kill it. I AM nice to my Orion stuff, and it goes kablooey.
And the old XTR900 amp. I bought it new, but four years old, out of a clearance shelf, since it was a discontinued amp. This is when I had stinky smells in my van, when I had the XTR900. They messed with it for a month, in my vehicle, on their bench, with other subs not just mine, etc. etc. and they couldn't tell me why that circuit kept heating up. So I gave up, paying a few hundred dollars to upgrade to a 1200d. THEY didn't say anything like "oh sorry since we can't fix it we'll give ya a better deal on the upgrade" back then.
So then I ran this H2 sub off my 1200d for the last 10 months. A few comps last summer, and one burp night a month before it died. The day it died, it hadn't even been driven hard in a week. No smells in 10 months, and it dies? Am I just one unlucky _______ or what?
Ya... $320 is a lot, considering I was told when I bought it that I could "almost never" destroy it. How much does reconing cost? Maybe I should get them to ship it back to me and get it reconed? How's the quality, sq, spl, etc. of reconing an H2, is it the same, better, or worse, than original?
'Course... they have already ripped it apart, to see what "I" did to it. Probably wrecked it even further than they should, or crushed it already knowing my luck...
The timing for them to be rumaging around in my pockets couldn't be worse either... A hundred bucks, even 150, I could eat I guess. But $320?
04-14-2005, 09:16 PM
#16
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6
there are a few reasons this could have happened, from what you said it sounds like a clipping issue with the amp, this could be realted to the gain setting. or it could be a voltage/current issue or lack of!. Basically the amplifer is trying to repodouce a square wave, either from a clipped output on your deck or lack of current/voltage at the amps end. so in the "square section" on the wave the woffer ceases movement, and we all know what happens to a coil when you run electricity through it (think of your stove) causing it to heat up and over time, eventually it lets go. From your explanation this is my assumption, but there are way to many variables to say for sure
Good luck
Good luck
04-15-2005, 05:16 AM
#17
I've used the H2's and speak often to competitors giving them anywhere from 1000rms to 10,000rms on each driver and they can take a beating.
I'm going to have to side with human error on this one. DEI customer service is usually very good to excellent. Something breaks and it's a quality issue, they will replace the item not just fix it.
Very pleased with their gear and their company.
I'm going to have to side with human error on this one. DEI customer service is usually very good to excellent. Something breaks and it's a quality issue, they will replace the item not just fix it.
Very pleased with their gear and their company.
04-15-2005, 12:32 PM
#18
I have to dissagree with user error.. I dont care how hard you clip that amp.. it shouldnt have been able to take out that sub barring a mechanical issue... The failure was a short using less then rated power....
setting gains, blah blah blah...
A sub woofer dosen't care if the signal is clipped or not... if you voltage clip an amp you will get a small increase in output... if you do it hard enough you may even get a moderate increase in output(a few percent)... if you really clip the snot out of a signal you may even get %20-30 more then the amp is rated for at nominal load... (ie. everything the amp has)on the other hand this degree of distortion would be horrific and it would still be within the thermal limits of this 'bullet proof' sub....
Even giving a sub square wave.. its still going to **** back and forth 20 times a second or more and the motion of the cone will still resemble a sinusidal wave.... peak excursion will also be roughly the same as if it was clean signal...
(you will loose 1db at your fundamental)
I might also add that playing iron madden has never given me a problem on any system...
Grizz my advice is to call back and see if you can work out a better deal... its BS they told you they would take care of you and arn't... I honestly would not expect this crap from orion..
If they refuse your warranty about all you do is call the BBB or whatever consumer group and make a formal complaint.. (they might start to bend if you call refusing their offer and bring this up)
As far as a repair.. there is a good chance it could have been repaired at a shop for under $50.. A compete recone would probably run more like $200. Now you probably wouldn't be able to get exact parts but Iam sure a close approximation could be made..
Generally when I recone a woofer I like to re-measure t/s parameters if its going into a tuned enclosure.... although not all recone shops have the ability to do that...
[ April 15, 2005, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Haunz ]
setting gains, blah blah blah...
A sub woofer dosen't care if the signal is clipped or not... if you voltage clip an amp you will get a small increase in output... if you do it hard enough you may even get a moderate increase in output(a few percent)... if you really clip the snot out of a signal you may even get %20-30 more then the amp is rated for at nominal load... (ie. everything the amp has)on the other hand this degree of distortion would be horrific and it would still be within the thermal limits of this 'bullet proof' sub....
Even giving a sub square wave.. its still going to **** back and forth 20 times a second or more and the motion of the cone will still resemble a sinusidal wave.... peak excursion will also be roughly the same as if it was clean signal...
(you will loose 1db at your fundamental)
I might also add that playing iron madden has never given me a problem on any system...
Grizz my advice is to call back and see if you can work out a better deal... its BS they told you they would take care of you and arn't... I honestly would not expect this crap from orion..
If they refuse your warranty about all you do is call the BBB or whatever consumer group and make a formal complaint.. (they might start to bend if you call refusing their offer and bring this up)
As far as a repair.. there is a good chance it could have been repaired at a shop for under $50.. A compete recone would probably run more like $200. Now you probably wouldn't be able to get exact parts but Iam sure a close approximation could be made..
Generally when I recone a woofer I like to re-measure t/s parameters if its going into a tuned enclosure.... although not all recone shops have the ability to do that...
[ April 15, 2005, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Haunz ]
04-15-2005, 12:47 PM
#19
Seriously... get the sub back and ask for all the pieces. (they're yours so they shouldn't have thrown them out)
There are a few companies that can do recones for you that I'm sure you'll be happy with. RE has been known to recone just about any sub.
It sounds like they aren't looking to help you out too much so I'd take a walk.
Hell, I'd rather throw the sub in the trash and move on to another company for $320 rather than deal with that.
There are a few companies that can do recones for you that I'm sure you'll be happy with. RE has been known to recone just about any sub.
It sounds like they aren't looking to help you out too much so I'd take a walk.
Hell, I'd rather throw the sub in the trash and move on to another company for $320 rather than deal with that.
04-15-2005, 11:16 PM
#20
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6
Haunz I must say I diagree with your statement
"A sub woofer dosen't care if the signal is clipped or not... if you voltage clip an amp you will get a small increase in output... if you do it hard enough you may even get a moderate increase in output(a few percent)... if you really clip the snot out of a signal you may even get %20-30 more then the amp is rated for at nominal load... (ie. everything the amp has)on the other hand this degree of distortion would be horrific and it would still be within the thermal limits of this 'bullet proof' sub....
Even giving a sub square wave.. its still going to **** back and forth 20 times a second or more and the motion of the cone will still resemble a sinusidal wave.... peak excursion will also be roughly the same as if it was clean signal...
(you will loose 1db at your fundamental)"
but you are intitled to your opinion and I am intitled to mine mine
"A sub woofer dosen't care if the signal is clipped or not... if you voltage clip an amp you will get a small increase in output... if you do it hard enough you may even get a moderate increase in output(a few percent)... if you really clip the snot out of a signal you may even get %20-30 more then the amp is rated for at nominal load... (ie. everything the amp has)on the other hand this degree of distortion would be horrific and it would still be within the thermal limits of this 'bullet proof' sub....
Even giving a sub square wave.. its still going to **** back and forth 20 times a second or more and the motion of the cone will still resemble a sinusidal wave.... peak excursion will also be roughly the same as if it was clean signal...
(you will loose 1db at your fundamental)"
but you are intitled to your opinion and I am intitled to mine mine
