Wall design for Dayton Classic 18
04-29-2011, 05:04 PM
#1
Wall design for Dayton Classic 18
I havn't had a stereo since '08, so I'm doing a small build.
The sub is a new Dayton Classic DCS450-4 18" 300W RMS. It has 8.25mm xmax, 17 inner/18 outer. I've never heard it, and I can't find the dag nabbit displacement (so I calculated for .2-.25).
I really don't know what to do, but it's going behind the front seats in my Alero.
I want to build a simple ported throw-in box, nothing fancy. I'm doing a budget build with a pair of 4x6's for the stock-size fronts. I'm hoping to get 400ish watts out of the stock alt.
I can fit about 9 cubes @ 36 Hz, but I don't know if I'll break the sub because I listen to rap that probably gets lower than 36. Almost nothing chopped, but stuff like Grippin' The Grain (chopped) I want to listen to. My last sub (05 RE XXX 12, 2.2 @ 36, 1500W amp, Sunfire trunk) fried a tinsel, and I'm not sure why, but it happened as I was listening to rap with a low bassline. What causes tinsel slap? Was it tinsel slap, dirty power? The electrical was stock besides the big 3, and the amp had 2 runs of 0 gauge. It worked for about 6 months, and the amp randomly shut off less than 5 times. The box dropped on its face after ~34 Hz, and I wanted better lows.
I was thinking of having the air-space up to the height of the front seats (below the headrests), and having the port the same size as the rectangle between the headrests (about 15 x 7).
Why port on drivers side, doesn't the seat block the port opening?
Should I counter-sink?
The box is (I can fit 30" height through the door):
Port 15 x 7.25 x 16.375 depth
.75"/1.5" baffle
(outside sealed) 49.5 width x 19.5 (27.5 with port) height x 20 (20.75) depth = 9.25 cubes grosse.
The 12 Volt Port Calculator says, after an end correction, 36 Hz to within +/- .1 Hz depending on the displacement of the driver.
Is that the right port area? I was shooting for 12" of port per cube. I just don't think it needs it with 8.25mm xmax. Is that too much space? People use like 12 cubes in HT setups. Is the port shortish? If I don't like 36 Hz than I'll glue on a longer port and it'll sit between the headrests, maybe make the port 16.5 x 8.75 and use an interchangeable-length port (16.5 x 8.75 would be 16" of port per cube/with 9 cubes).
I think my XXX did 135-140 dB, peaking at 39-41 Hz. It was loud, but I wanted more. I doubt my amp was putting out anywhere near 1500W because I switched the sub out for a far more inefficient sub, using the amp at 2 ohms (750W), and there wasn't an audible difference. It being in a trunk, it wasn't that great. Will this walled/budget 18 be a huge, if at all, downgrade?
I thought about re-coning the XXX to an 18. I can't find the PSI site nor find a quote. Would I have to ship it to them (do they ship to Canada)? If not, would it be easy for me to change it myself (I'm mechanically inclined)? How much is a re-cone? If it's ~$100 than I might as well get that done and use that, even on the most amount of power my stock alt can handle, I think it's 90-120A. How many amps does a vehicles alt generally pull for all the other gadgets? I have a fried 1500W amp, I bought it (working) for $250/used (Visonik V900XD). Do you think it would cost much to fix? Looking at the guts, like 5-10% of the board is jet-black lol.
I want 2 walled HDC3 18's on a 2200, but that'll come with a better job
.
What are good, budget 4x6's?
Thanks.
The sub is a new Dayton Classic DCS450-4 18" 300W RMS. It has 8.25mm xmax, 17 inner/18 outer. I've never heard it, and I can't find the dag nabbit displacement (so I calculated for .2-.25).
I really don't know what to do, but it's going behind the front seats in my Alero.
I want to build a simple ported throw-in box, nothing fancy. I'm doing a budget build with a pair of 4x6's for the stock-size fronts. I'm hoping to get 400ish watts out of the stock alt.
I can fit about 9 cubes @ 36 Hz, but I don't know if I'll break the sub because I listen to rap that probably gets lower than 36. Almost nothing chopped, but stuff like Grippin' The Grain (chopped) I want to listen to. My last sub (05 RE XXX 12, 2.2 @ 36, 1500W amp, Sunfire trunk) fried a tinsel, and I'm not sure why, but it happened as I was listening to rap with a low bassline. What causes tinsel slap? Was it tinsel slap, dirty power? The electrical was stock besides the big 3, and the amp had 2 runs of 0 gauge. It worked for about 6 months, and the amp randomly shut off less than 5 times. The box dropped on its face after ~34 Hz, and I wanted better lows.
I was thinking of having the air-space up to the height of the front seats (below the headrests), and having the port the same size as the rectangle between the headrests (about 15 x 7).
Why port on drivers side, doesn't the seat block the port opening?
Should I counter-sink?
The box is (I can fit 30" height through the door):
Port 15 x 7.25 x 16.375 depth
.75"/1.5" baffle
(outside sealed) 49.5 width x 19.5 (27.5 with port) height x 20 (20.75) depth = 9.25 cubes grosse.
The 12 Volt Port Calculator says, after an end correction, 36 Hz to within +/- .1 Hz depending on the displacement of the driver.
Is that the right port area? I was shooting for 12" of port per cube. I just don't think it needs it with 8.25mm xmax. Is that too much space? People use like 12 cubes in HT setups. Is the port shortish? If I don't like 36 Hz than I'll glue on a longer port and it'll sit between the headrests, maybe make the port 16.5 x 8.75 and use an interchangeable-length port (16.5 x 8.75 would be 16" of port per cube/with 9 cubes).
I think my XXX did 135-140 dB, peaking at 39-41 Hz. It was loud, but I wanted more. I doubt my amp was putting out anywhere near 1500W because I switched the sub out for a far more inefficient sub, using the amp at 2 ohms (750W), and there wasn't an audible difference. It being in a trunk, it wasn't that great. Will this walled/budget 18 be a huge, if at all, downgrade?
I thought about re-coning the XXX to an 18. I can't find the PSI site nor find a quote. Would I have to ship it to them (do they ship to Canada)? If not, would it be easy for me to change it myself (I'm mechanically inclined)? How much is a re-cone? If it's ~$100 than I might as well get that done and use that, even on the most amount of power my stock alt can handle, I think it's 90-120A. How many amps does a vehicles alt generally pull for all the other gadgets? I have a fried 1500W amp, I bought it (working) for $250/used (Visonik V900XD). Do you think it would cost much to fix? Looking at the guts, like 5-10% of the board is jet-black lol.
I want 2 walled HDC3 18's on a 2200, but that'll come with a better job
.What are good, budget 4x6's?
Thanks.
04-29-2011, 06:24 PM
#3
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 215
the visonic vxd609 is a solid 300rms amp, i ran it @ 1ohm for 2 yrs with no problems but it is a 2ohm amp......on 2 15's i was pullin 145's consistantly.....i thought it was stappable as well but now sure.....they run just over 120bux on ebay!!
04-29-2011, 07:16 PM
#4
Considering I got 1500 watts @ 1 ohm for $250, $120 for 300W @ 2 ohms isn't great. I was thinking more like $50-$80 used, 250-350 watts. I don't care what brand it is, as long as it's reputable, reliable, and does rated.
That's a great score, details?
I'll be getting a used deck from the trader paper for like $30, it just has to work. I want this all set up by yesterday.
Is it just me or does anyone else stare at Garvoks' avatar for awhile before moving on? lol
That's a great score, details?
I'll be getting a used deck from the trader paper for like $30, it just has to work. I want this all set up by yesterday.
Is it just me or does anyone else stare at Garvoks' avatar for awhile before moving on? lol
Last edited by Lord Huggington; 04-29-2011 at 07:27 PM.
04-29-2011, 07:38 PM
#5
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 215
Considering I got 1500 watts @ 1 ohm for $250, $120 for 300W @ 2 ohms isn't great. I was thinking more like $50-$80 used, 250-350 watts. I don't care what brand it is, as long as it's reputable, reliable, and does rated.
That's a great score, details?
I'll be getting a used deck from the trader paper for like $30, it just has to work. I want this all set up by yesterday.
Is it just me or does anyone else stare at Garvoks' avatar for awhile before moving on? lol
That's a great score, details?
I'll be getting a used deck from the trader paper for like $30, it just has to work. I want this all set up by yesterday.
Is it just me or does anyone else stare at Garvoks' avatar for awhile before moving on? lol
i had 2 15" ma audio, in a wall in a civic.....not hard to do 145 in a wall....not really even loud yet....but given the subs, and amp....not too bad..!!
04-29-2011, 08:10 PM
#6
145 has to be considered loud, the loudest I've heard (in-car atleast) was 2 Visonik 10's with 1000W in a crazy big box (4th order maybe) in a Jimmy 4-door. It was like a fully body massage, and I went blind listening to Throw It Up. My 12 didn't do anywhere near that.
How much power can I support with 105 amps (total) from an alt if the audio-amps are at 14.4 volts and are 75% efficient? Stock battery. I think it's like 30 amps to the cars' gadgets, so 800W/.75%/14.4V = 74A+30A = 105A. 800 watts on a stocker. 30 doesn't sound right because I think it would just have 30 if it needed 30, ya know? What am I missing?
Partsexpress has so many 4x6's, from like $10 to $150.
How much power can I support with 105 amps (total) from an alt if the audio-amps are at 14.4 volts and are 75% efficient? Stock battery. I think it's like 30 amps to the cars' gadgets, so 800W/.75%/14.4V = 74A+30A = 105A. 800 watts on a stocker. 30 doesn't sound right because I think it would just have 30 if it needed 30, ya know? What am I missing?
Partsexpress has so many 4x6's, from like $10 to $150.
04-29-2011, 10:39 PM
#8
Just incase I want to get two 18's, 600 watts + fronts = 800 watts. Can still be a budget build without having to buy batteries/alt, that would be another $400, more than the subs & speakers & amps.
Does PSI have a website? I can't find it with google.
I know small power can be fine for daily with the right setup. I really want 2 18's, and I doubt I'd want more than 2 Classic 18's walled. I can even fit a 4th order wall coming out of the trunk if I cut it up, that would be madness.
Does PSI have a website? I can't find it with google.
I know small power can be fine for daily with the right setup. I really want 2 18's, and I doubt I'd want more than 2 Classic 18's walled. I can even fit a 4th order wall coming out of the trunk if I cut it up, that would be madness.
04-30-2011, 11:10 AM
#10
If it produces 2000W (.8% efficient) at 12-14.4 volts, it will pull 175-210 amps, and the OEM alt is probably ~100A. What does that mean for the actual power output, is it halved or is it a dirty 2000W?
I could get a battery, but I don't want to, mostly because I won't be buying an alt anytime soon, and I play with the stereo whenever I'm in the car, I wouldn't want to drive around waiting for a batt to charge.
I think I'm going to cut up my trunk opening and play with a 4th order wall with lots of port area, like the entire area above the seats (starting below the headrests) will be all port area. This is going to be a nutty build.
Is it true that subs in 4th orders don't need or use as much of their xmax?
What would be a good starting ratio? I can fit through the door, 30 door height (trunk depth) x 20 door width (box height in trunk) by 38" (10.5 cubes grosse). An online (shivo or something) calculator tells me that for -3dB @ 20 Hz & 60 Hz I should do something like 10 sealed, 4 ported.
Is carstereos "minimum 4th order port area" correct? I apparently need 268.75" of port area for a 30 Hz tune. I don't want a specific tune, I'd like flatness from 20-60 Hz.
About how long would the port be? With that much port area it could be about 15" long.
I could get a battery, but I don't want to, mostly because I won't be buying an alt anytime soon, and I play with the stereo whenever I'm in the car, I wouldn't want to drive around waiting for a batt to charge.
I think I'm going to cut up my trunk opening and play with a 4th order wall with lots of port area, like the entire area above the seats (starting below the headrests) will be all port area. This is going to be a nutty build.
Is it true that subs in 4th orders don't need or use as much of their xmax?
What would be a good starting ratio? I can fit through the door, 30 door height (trunk depth) x 20 door width (box height in trunk) by 38" (10.5 cubes grosse). An online (shivo or something) calculator tells me that for -3dB @ 20 Hz & 60 Hz I should do something like 10 sealed, 4 ported.
Is carstereos "minimum 4th order port area" correct? I apparently need 268.75" of port area for a 30 Hz tune. I don't want a specific tune, I'd like flatness from 20-60 Hz.
About how long would the port be? With that much port area it could be about 15" long.
