How big of an alternator do I need for my car?
11-17-2004, 01:56 PM
#21
50 Watt CAFz'r
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 68
Originally posted by JohnnyToronto:
A cap stores a small amount of energy before it gets to your amps.I mean no offense but you don't have too much of an idea what they do, but you think you need them, why?
A cap stores a small amount of energy before it gets to your amps.I mean no offense but you don't have too much of an idea what they do, but you think you need them, why?
so your saying this is wrong?
Again as i stated I know I dont need the 15 farads BUT its better looking then having the 2-3 caps again my above post why is my electrical still dimming... what im gonna do is hook up the 15F and see if it still does dim...if it doesnt i know what the problem is and i guess i "kinda" do know what im talking about [img]smile.gif[/img]
And iu still dont know why it would put more strain?... Its already charged! even you said it... ("and then some to put in the stupid cap")
Brad [img]smile.gif[/img]
[ November 17, 2004, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: KillerX ]
11-17-2004, 02:02 PM
#22
You're still going to get dimming in that Lumina with a 100a max alt. If you added your 15f cap your dimming would likely get even worse after a couple bass hits. Why, because the amp already doesn't have enough power from the charging system and now the cap is trying to recharge also so it is now sucking power.
Listen to what we're telling you (althogh not Grizz as keeping the stock alt is a stupid thing to do as you need that charging power and adding a second battery to a stock electrical is even more idiotic as it will just kill that stock alt even quicker).
You want enough power for daily listening (even at loud levels) so you want a big alt to keep things fed nicely while the car is running and a good output at idle is important to keep things fed if the car is just idling. Upgrade ALL wiring to nice big cable (welding wire is far cheaper and can be had at welding supply stores and princess auto).Read the supplied link for info on replacing the BIG 3.
Caps, although debated, is a waste of money. Get as big an alt and wire as you can afford. My advice would be to sell your 15f cap and spend the money on these. If you have a nice big alt and all your wire is big with clean connections you should be fine. If you still have some dimming then you can think about adding a second battery to the system as now you will have a charging system capable of handling it.
Now go get started.
Listen to what we're telling you (althogh not Grizz as keeping the stock alt is a stupid thing to do as you need that charging power and adding a second battery to a stock electrical is even more idiotic as it will just kill that stock alt even quicker).
You want enough power for daily listening (even at loud levels) so you want a big alt to keep things fed nicely while the car is running and a good output at idle is important to keep things fed if the car is just idling. Upgrade ALL wiring to nice big cable (welding wire is far cheaper and can be had at welding supply stores and princess auto).Read the supplied link for info on replacing the BIG 3.
Caps, although debated, is a waste of money. Get as big an alt and wire as you can afford. My advice would be to sell your 15f cap and spend the money on these. If you have a nice big alt and all your wire is big with clean connections you should be fine. If you still have some dimming then you can think about adding a second battery to the system as now you will have a charging system capable of handling it.
Now go get started.
11-17-2004, 02:15 PM
#23
Ok you're admitting that it dims like a ****.
Ok, so putting a cap in, is gonna have your elec system charging something else, thus putting more strain on it. Do you get what we're saying?
I'm talking from experience, I had a cap once upon a time and it proved to be useless.
It's like putting a band aid on your problem. It's still going to be there, but it will just get worse.
If you have a big cut on your arm do you just put a bigger band aid on it or actually try to fix what's wrong with your arm?
Get a bigger alt, and a good battery if you don't already have one.
Ok, so putting a cap in, is gonna have your elec system charging something else, thus putting more strain on it. Do you get what we're saying?
I'm talking from experience, I had a cap once upon a time and it proved to be useless.
It's like putting a band aid on your problem. It's still going to be there, but it will just get worse.
If you have a big cut on your arm do you just put a bigger band aid on it or actually try to fix what's wrong with your arm?
Get a bigger alt, and a good battery if you don't already have one.
11-17-2004, 03:17 PM
#25
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well you guys are more experience then i am, thats why i asked you guys, and you guys gave me some great answers...but im probably still gonna keep the cap heres why:
JohnnyToronto: Yes it dims with my 140 amp alt(around 90-100 amps in idle) with no Capacitor. When I put my ZX350 V2 in with the xmaxs it dims, but not like the Ti 1200.1. BUT when i put a 1 farad cap in with the ZX350 V2 no dimming... Yes I get what your saying... the alt is working a little harder to fill up that tiny bit of the cap, when a musical note it just gives it that little bit more power it needs then charges up to normal...its not completely draining the cap...well it would if i had more then 1200 watts playing for a long time because it wouldent be able to keep up... this is what im saying, if i get a big alt and good bat and this capacitor, why would it be worse then having no capacitor?
This is the thing...I own a Ferrari 255 spider replica...I dont wanna be going down the road playing my music and every hit the bass plays my lights keep dimming...
Iv had alot of stereo systems in my day and iv probably have had a capacitor in them for that reason...not only that wouldent the lack of power going to the amp ruin the battery since the alternator cant "keep up".
Father Yuli, Like I said before, I appreciate you guys trying to help me...but when I go to my car and it doesnt dim anymore? how am I saposta "get rid of the stupid cap"
whats the worset that can happen with this cap in my car? blow the alt?
Brad [img]smile.gif[/img]
EDIT: spelling again...
[ November 17, 2004, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: KillerX ]
JohnnyToronto: Yes it dims with my 140 amp alt(around 90-100 amps in idle) with no Capacitor. When I put my ZX350 V2 in with the xmaxs it dims, but not like the Ti 1200.1. BUT when i put a 1 farad cap in with the ZX350 V2 no dimming... Yes I get what your saying... the alt is working a little harder to fill up that tiny bit of the cap, when a musical note it just gives it that little bit more power it needs then charges up to normal...its not completely draining the cap...well it would if i had more then 1200 watts playing for a long time because it wouldent be able to keep up... this is what im saying, if i get a big alt and good bat and this capacitor, why would it be worse then having no capacitor?
This is the thing...I own a Ferrari 255 spider replica...I dont wanna be going down the road playing my music and every hit the bass plays my lights keep dimming...
Iv had alot of stereo systems in my day and iv probably have had a capacitor in them for that reason...not only that wouldent the lack of power going to the amp ruin the battery since the alternator cant "keep up".
Father Yuli, Like I said before, I appreciate you guys trying to help me...but when I go to my car and it doesnt dim anymore? how am I saposta "get rid of the stupid cap"
whats the worset that can happen with this cap in my car? blow the alt?
Brad [img]smile.gif[/img]
EDIT: spelling again...
[ November 17, 2004, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: KillerX ]
11-17-2004, 03:20 PM
#26
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OHH crap I forgot...I donno if this helps but in the Ferrari replica the engine is in the middle of the car so the longest my wires are going to be running are about 3 feet max because thats where the battery is
Brad [img]smile.gif[/img]
Brad [img]smile.gif[/img]
11-17-2004, 03:57 PM
#27
Yes the worst that can happen is blowing your alt...lol.
Anyhow fix your problems first, you say adding a cap is to help the dynamic peaks of music, well, if your system was starved to begin with, how will adding a cap help?
Do you get what I'm saying?
IF you had everything working great to begin with, THEN added a cap, I can see it helping in adding some sort of headroom.
Anyhow fix your problems first, you say adding a cap is to help the dynamic peaks of music, well, if your system was starved to begin with, how will adding a cap help?
Do you get what I'm saying?
IF you had everything working great to begin with, THEN added a cap, I can see it helping in adding some sort of headroom.
11-17-2004, 03:57 PM
#28
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 756
keeping the stock alt is a stupid thing to do as you need that charging power and adding a second battery to a stock electrical is even more idiotic as it will just kill that stock alt even quicker
Caps are no substitute for available amperage, although they do have an effect. You can see this yourself with most multi-meters & AVR's. Run the car, and the system, while checking voltage at batteries & amps. You will notice that with a cap, your voltage fluctuation is not as bad as without. Good, even excessive cabling, also improves this.
It is also correct that caps add additional loads to alternators. When calculating amperage availability, treat caps as amplifiers. Like, adding a 1f cap to a simple system with a stock alternator is quite effective. Adding a 15f cap to a stock alternator with a simple or large system would definately be detrimental. You would definately need a much larger alternator then, to keep that cap charged up enough for music, as was already said.
However, I was speaking cost-effective wise. Stock CS130D's are pretty darn cheap and interchangable with CS130's (aka 9si, 10si) (all you have to do is change the regulator plug from your vehicle's wiring harness, and it should bolt right in where an older 9si was). If you are hard on alternators, replacing three or four CS130D's over time (you'll still get 20,000km's out of 'em, even if you work 'em hard) would still fall in or about the same price zone as paying for a large 200 amp custom alternator that isn't being used to it's full availability (I hope that made sense).
However, I assumed this was just a hobby system, not a super duper high end system in a Ferrari. If money isn't a really big issue, and buddy wants to keep the 15f cap, then yes it definately needs a larger alternator, or second alternator, even without a stereo system at all, just to keep that cap running effectively.
11-17-2004, 04:16 PM
#29
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GrizZz, hmm very good write up... so i probably would need a bigger alt for the 15F...like you...I too once had a Si alternaotr...i recently replaced it with a CS140 with the guts removed and installed a biggercore for more amps...
ophh btw i dont have a real ferrari its a replica off the chassis of a pontiac fiero im just keeping this enigne in till next winter when i upgrade the egine thats why im leaning more towards the "dont wanna spend too much on a alt im not gonna use yet"
but ok...well im gonna try it and see how crazy hot its getting with the stereo and the cap and see what the voltages are like in both situations ...like most of you said, if it gets crazy hot i got 2 options, get rid of the cap or get a bigger alt,
im still confused on one thing tho...how would you make your lights stop dimming, i mean even if i get a 300 amp alternator and my amps are still sucking in all the volts from the car where do i turn to next? would i need to get another battery?
Like i said...im not going hard core in this system but i would like a pound here and there
Brad [img]smile.gif[/img]
ophh btw i dont have a real ferrari its a replica off the chassis of a pontiac fiero im just keeping this enigne in till next winter when i upgrade the egine thats why im leaning more towards the "dont wanna spend too much on a alt im not gonna use yet"
but ok...well im gonna try it and see how crazy hot its getting with the stereo and the cap and see what the voltages are like in both situations ...like most of you said, if it gets crazy hot i got 2 options, get rid of the cap or get a bigger alt,
im still confused on one thing tho...how would you make your lights stop dimming, i mean even if i get a 300 amp alternator and my amps are still sucking in all the volts from the car where do i turn to next? would i need to get another battery?
Like i said...im not going hard core in this system but i would like a pound here and there
Brad [img]smile.gif[/img]
11-17-2004, 04:28 PM
#30
The reason your 15F cap won't be any help is because it's ESR is probably more then your battery's and 10x a 1F can... plus with a high performance batery with low ESR, there isn't really any need for capatance in the first place...
I'd advocate the 1F cans in some systems using higher ESR batteries.. but for the cost of em you are better off buying a new batt !!!
BTW- watch out like these guys are saying... a big HO alt around town may put out less juice then a 100amper stock alt... check out idel current!
I'd advocate the 1F cans in some systems using higher ESR batteries.. but for the cost of em you are better off buying a new batt !!!
BTW- watch out like these guys are saying... a big HO alt around town may put out less juice then a 100amper stock alt... check out idel current!
