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"Street A" rule clarification...

Old 08-14-2004, 08:48 AM
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At the Aug. 8th Drags, I was told I can have only one battery, in Street A.

I have a stock lead-acid battery for the van, in it's stock location. I also have a battery just for my stereo, in the back near the stereo, the stereo & it's battery are completly isolated (through a switch) from the vehicle when it is shut off. This is so that I can run my stereo all night at the lake, and still be able to start up the van and drive away, charging both batteries off the alternator.

In Street A, you are not allowed to run your vehicle when competing, it is shut off. So that literally disconnects my front battery from the system, like it's not even there. All my stereo equipment, including the head unit, run off my rear stereo battery. So in effect, I only have the one battery. But another rule states you can only have one battery, and I do, when the vehicle is shut off. These are conflicting rules, no?

Removing my front battery and altering cabling to run the van off the stereo battery would be a pain in the butt, and quite silly. I suppose I could move the stereo battery up front and just bolt the rear cables together, and remove the switch that isolates the batteries...

It's just a silly rule, no? Would I be allowed to drive up, pull the cables off my front battery, compete, reconnect the battery and drive away again? Would that make the rule makers happy?
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Old 08-14-2004, 10:01 AM
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^^ If it's a db drag, and the rules are strictly enforced, then no, you would have to be in Street C not a or b, because you still ahve 2 batteries.
It's not really a silly rule, because then say you could have 2 batt, and "say" you're only using one,.
It would be a pain in the *** to go and check everyones car to see if infact they are only running one batt, and not the two.
See what I mean?
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Old 08-14-2004, 05:30 PM
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In street A and B, the battery you are using muxt be in the stock location.
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Old 08-15-2004, 05:08 AM
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his in super street no wall with that extra battery. not a street class.
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:02 PM
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6-3 While in the judging lanes, the maximum voltage of the vehicle’s electrical system shall not exceed 14.0 volts DC in the Street and Street Max divisions or 18.0 volts DC in the Super Street and Extreme divisions.



Additional Guidelines:



· The sound system in the vehicle must be powered by the vehicle’s primary electrical system. This system, which is comprised of the alternator(s), battery (or batteries), and distribution system, must in turn be powered by the vehicle’s engine.



Exception:



o Compliance with this guideline is not required provided the vehicle’s engine is not running while the vehicle is being metered.



· External generators, fuel cells, battery chargers, etc. may not be used in the judging lanes.
Hey Ray...

"Compliance with this guidline is not required provided the vehicle's engine is not running while the vehicle is being metered."

So I was right, I can keep my stereo battery, yes?
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:05 PM
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I'd e-mail Wayne, and see what he says.
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:09 PM
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K..... who's Wayne? [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:25 PM
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Doh... my problems just keep compounding... [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img]

o Cargo vans and commercial vehicles are prohibited from competing in the Street Division.

So I'm not even allowed to be in a Street division at all? Ah geez...

My commercial van has seating for five... but yes, it's still a cargo van.

Is there any way of making a cargo van into a regular van? Like, if I have seating for 5, a small console between my seats.... ah crap.... that sucks... now I suppose I gotta put up my one sub/one amp system against Street Max entries, with two subs and two amps... [img]graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]
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Old 08-16-2004, 06:57 PM
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Okay. First, let me say that whoever wrote that rule list ( http://www.termpro.com/dbdrag/rules/2004/rules04.html ) is whack.

I'm still trying to figure out what division my van is in. The line about cargo vans keeps me out of Street A, B, & C completely. Ok, that's fine. I'll go for Street Max 1-2, right?

Not so, with two batteries I gotta go Street Max 3-4? I can't tell due to the gobbledygook of the rule list.

First, I'll quote the rule list again:

6-3 While in the judging lanes, the maximum voltage of the vehicle’s electrical system shall not exceed 14.0 volts DC in the Street and Street Max divisions or 18.0 volts DC in the Super Street and Extreme divisions.



Additional Guidelines:



· The sound system in the vehicle must be powered by the vehicle’s primary electrical system. This system, which is comprised of the alternator(s), battery (or batteries), and distribution system, must in turn be powered by the vehicle’s engine.



Exception:



o Compliance with this guideline is not required provided the vehicle’s engine is not running while the vehicle is being metered.



· External generators, fuel cells, battery chargers, etc. may not be used in the judging lanes.
Okay, so that tells me that I CAN have two batteries, since my motor is not running during competition, yes? Read on:

6-7i Competitors in the Street A and Street B classes are limited to 1 battery. Competitors in the Street C class are limited to 2 batteries.
And,

6-8f Competitors in the Street Max 1-2 class are limited to 1 battery and competitors in the Street Max 3-4 class are limited to 2 batteries.
These last two rules are posted AFTER the exception! Why would you put an exception before a rule? Does it make the exception null? Does the exception make 6-7i and 6-8f null? IF the exception is the winner of the arguement, then why would you make the 6-7i and 6-8f rules AT ALL?

So now it's telling me that I CAN'T have two batteries in Street Max 1-2 again, even though the exception in bold above (about the engine running) is in my favour.

I'm a little miffed, every time I try to comply, I get the shaft, the run-around, no answers. I have one 12in. sub. One amp for it. Street A "should" be my division, but since I'm a little smarter than the average guy when it comes to automotive electrical (it's what I do for a living) and stuck an extra battery in, I get shafted. A good Optima battery on even ONE little 200 watt amp can improve sound drastically, this is fact. I tell all customers this, and all people that ever ask (I get calls from stereo guys looking for HO alternators often). "Do your cabling first, then a rear battery, then a cap, THEN an alternator" I feel dual batteries should be allowed in ALL divisions, especially if you're allowed a one farad cap in all divisions.

THEN I find out cargo vans aren't allowed in Street at all. [img]graemlins/jawdrop.gif[/img]

I don't really "get" that rule, I mean, who's got the advantage, my big cargo van, wasting air and sound like mad, or that little Dodge Colt, or Honda Civic? Is it possible to "make" my van a passenger van, in the eyes of the judges? How, seating for 5 (already got) and cover the bare walls with insulation (planning on this anyway) or something? Carpet the floor?

But whatever, I'll stick my 12in. sub and single amp up against 2-sub-and-amp vehicles, a la Street Max 1-2. I'll probably never win a trophy, but I'll still have fun.

But two batteries will put me in Street Max 3-4? *whines* NOT FAIR.

It's not really a silly rule, because then say you could have 2 batt, and "say" you're only using one,.
It would be a pain in the *** to go and check everyones car to see if infact they are only running one batt, and not the two.


Is this NOT officially sanctioned DB Drags? In actual drag racing, when you take your car and enter a division, you get "teched". A dude comes along and checks over everything to make sure you're following the rules. Do you not get teched at DB Drags? If I say as I enter: "I have two batteries, but when the vehicle is off, the batteries are completely isolated from each other, through a standard RV solenoid." I can then show the tech this in 5 seconds. If asked/required/allowed, I could easily disconnect the front battery when I'm in the lane, compete, and reconnect the battery. I could even put in a quick disconnect, so it could be done in 5 seconds instead of 30.

Technically, since I'm using an Optima as my rear (stereo) battery, then having the stock lead-acid battery would INcrease my overall resistance, and have an adverse effect on my overall output. In other words, having that front battery actually hooked up during competition would REDUCE my overall DB!

But actually (prior to the show) disconnecting the stereo battery, joining the cables together, and recabling the front to bypass the RV solenoid, do a DB Drag event, then on Monday switch it all back? 's crazy man...

So, I need a ruling on this... (1), is there any way I can make my cargo van meet the requirements to be considered a passenger van? And more importantly, (2), can I keep my coach battery? Oh and (3), Can someone, a DB Drag Judge preferrably, tell me what division I fall in PLEASE?!?!

Who is this Wayne, or who else do I email about it? Ray Choy is the judge that brought my battery dilemna to my attention, should I harass him? I'd like it resolved this week so I can prepare for the show at the end of the month...

Sorry to all that read all this and feel as frustrated as I do...
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Old 08-16-2004, 07:48 PM
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Welcome to Db Drags. This is why I quit Db drags and am going for SQ. I've asked a few rules clarification questions on the termpro forum, and seen a interesting pattern...

Competitors from the US who ask for clarification are generally told that they can do what they want, wheras competitors from overseas, or canada are told that anything they'd like to do is "against the spirit of the rules" and isn't allowed, or that there's some "unwritten rule" that rules them out completely.

In addition to that BS, there's the whole "The rules don't apply to people who get loud" arguement, because, obviously, if someone's loud, then they shouldn't have to obey the rules that keep everyone else from being loud.

Db Drags is a joke.
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