unauthorized e-tailers
0 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 34
I'd like to give a little update on my experiences. Without mentioning shop names (I think that's frowned upon here right?), earlier this afternoon I called a shop that I know is notorious for undercutting most shops and found out what they sell the products for. This place is a two hour drive each way for me, so I figured, I'll go check one more local shop before making the drive to get the deal. Well I was presently surprised that I when I started chatting with the salesman, he gave me honest advice, and did not really steer me towards one product, but merely explain the differences and let me make my own educated decision. I opted to go JL, and told him what this shop had given me as a price. He went and did some math, and came back saying that he'd match it. Awesome! We did some more talking, and I actually upgraded from a 10" to a 12" sub (after listening to some Blood Sugar Sex Magik on them [img]smile.gif[/img] .
I gave him my visa and that was that. This is exactly the kind of experience I was hoping for. I assured him that I'd be back later in the summer to buy some component speakers once I had some more money in my budget.
-dyno <-- a very happy camper at the moment
P.S. if anyone is looking for a good place to buy JL stuff, I know of one =)
I gave him my visa and that was that. This is exactly the kind of experience I was hoping for. I assured him that I'd be back later in the summer to buy some component speakers once I had some more money in my budget.
-dyno <-- a very happy camper at the moment
P.S. if anyone is looking for a good place to buy JL stuff, I know of one =)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by pinhead:
dereck for one i am a very pro shop canadian person and i will pay more money for somethingif im supporting my local economy
this is something that alot of people don't seem to get or understand
alot of people shop on price
dereck for one i am a very pro shop canadian person and i will pay more money for somethingif im supporting my local economy
this is something that alot of people don't seem to get or understand
alot of people shop on price
One of life lessons you need to learn is that the bigger you are the more say you have when you want to buy stuff when it comes to pricing. I really hate to say it, but if it weren't for stores like FS and A&B and Visions and other local bigger chains, the price of alot of electronics would be still astronomical.
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,242
Pinhead, this thread is about un-authorized dealers. Your problem is with authorized dealers selling equipmnet for less than what you can.
Seems to me that the source of your problem is the manufacture, and not the dealer.
What you should do is sell products that are not carried by FS/BB. Then problem solved.
Don't get pissed because they can sell for less.
Seems to me that the source of your problem is the manufacture, and not the dealer.
What you should do is sell products that are not carried by FS/BB. Then problem solved.
Don't get pissed because they can sell for less.
That is a valid point that JRace brought up. It is a totally different topic, let's not try and flame each other over that. We can address the level playing field topic from a manufacturer on another day.
The topic again is the e-tailer like Five Finger Discount Jim's Audio house. FS, BB, A&B and all the other authorized dealers all face the same problem, the unauthorized e-tailer. He is here today, gone tomorrow, quite often with your hard earned money and nothing in exchange except grief.
[ March 12, 2004, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: MR2NR ]
The topic again is the e-tailer like Five Finger Discount Jim's Audio house. FS, BB, A&B and all the other authorized dealers all face the same problem, the unauthorized e-tailer. He is here today, gone tomorrow, quite often with your hard earned money and nothing in exchange except grief.
[ March 12, 2004, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: MR2NR ]
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 241
Well, I'll chime in. I work for an online retailer who is authorized for many brands, but not authorized for some others.
Frankly, I lay the blame on the manufacturers, reps and distributors for the way the industry is, as well as the consumer who wants the rock bottom low price.
When a manufacturer warranties products bought from unauthorized sources, they are sending a message you don't care about the dealers or the legit consumers. When they claim to go after the internet, but can't track serial numbers, they are talking out of both sides of their mouths. When they catch dealers, but don't have set policies ("well, I set that dealer up and he swears it will never happen again") they aren't helping anyone. JL Audio cuts off dealers from what I have heard. So does Eclipse. When they say "no internet" they mean it. That is why we don't carry those brands where I work. They don't want us to carry it, and they mean it. Some brands are like "well, we pay lip service to no internet, but we will treat your unauthorized customer the same way we treat an authorized customer, and we will look the other way when distributors sell the product to anyone with a pulse" it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why brands like that are everywhere.
The worst part, is that everyone likes knocking down the online retailers (legit or not). Most of the time, they aren't selling B stock (they are getting a much better program than most small time dealers), have the products in stock, will be there tomorrow for the most part (some have been around a while), and in many cases can get some sort of warranty (sometimes exactly the same as the manufacturer's). The fact that manufacturers bring these up means they don't want the dealer to know the truth. It is the manufacturer's fault for not controlling the distribution. Attacking the unauthorized retailer (some that by the prices they sell for have to be getting huge discounts and do huge volume) will only go so far. I have heard the "they don't have it, it's B-stock, they will bone you on shipping" so often it's not funny anymore. The stuff is there. They wouldn't do well with Bizrate if it wasn't, they wouldn't be on all the shopping portals and in all the search engines if they weren't doing huge volume. Some dealers fall for the excuses, but they shouldn't. They should ask point blank "what are you doing about it". They don't know how these guys operate, so its all just justification for not going after the transhippers.
The other problem are some of the promotions the big dogs get. When someone can sell products at dealer sheet, don't get mad at the guy who sells at sheet, since they are making money. The manufacturer is either giving to0 big a discount to some people, or they aren't disciplined so when they have a slow month they have a huge sale that encourages people to buy much more than they need to get that discount. Oh, and no matter what happens in the economy (9/11 for example) they expect growth year after year. So the dealer has to meet these unrealistic sales goals, or else. So it might be easier to risk losing the line by selling out the back door than to lose it for not selling enough out the front door.
The reps deserve some of the blame as well. Some would sell their mom if it got them to the next bonus level. They look the other way, they figure out ways to get in on the gravy train and since there is little risk for some brands, why not?
Right now, there are a number of distributors in the US who are transhipping. There isn't a way around it. I have shopped some of our competitors and had items shipped and it was drop shipped from somewhere else for them. Do some of the major Japanese manufacturers care? I don't think they do. They don't really want to know where the product is going. They pay lip service, but they don't really care. Clarion cares. You buy online from an unauthorized source, they won't warranty it for you. They feel like the consumer has been warned, and they need to protect their customers (the dealers).
Frankly, I lay the blame on the manufacturers, reps and distributors for the way the industry is, as well as the consumer who wants the rock bottom low price.
When a manufacturer warranties products bought from unauthorized sources, they are sending a message you don't care about the dealers or the legit consumers. When they claim to go after the internet, but can't track serial numbers, they are talking out of both sides of their mouths. When they catch dealers, but don't have set policies ("well, I set that dealer up and he swears it will never happen again") they aren't helping anyone. JL Audio cuts off dealers from what I have heard. So does Eclipse. When they say "no internet" they mean it. That is why we don't carry those brands where I work. They don't want us to carry it, and they mean it. Some brands are like "well, we pay lip service to no internet, but we will treat your unauthorized customer the same way we treat an authorized customer, and we will look the other way when distributors sell the product to anyone with a pulse" it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why brands like that are everywhere.
The worst part, is that everyone likes knocking down the online retailers (legit or not). Most of the time, they aren't selling B stock (they are getting a much better program than most small time dealers), have the products in stock, will be there tomorrow for the most part (some have been around a while), and in many cases can get some sort of warranty (sometimes exactly the same as the manufacturer's). The fact that manufacturers bring these up means they don't want the dealer to know the truth. It is the manufacturer's fault for not controlling the distribution. Attacking the unauthorized retailer (some that by the prices they sell for have to be getting huge discounts and do huge volume) will only go so far. I have heard the "they don't have it, it's B-stock, they will bone you on shipping" so often it's not funny anymore. The stuff is there. They wouldn't do well with Bizrate if it wasn't, they wouldn't be on all the shopping portals and in all the search engines if they weren't doing huge volume. Some dealers fall for the excuses, but they shouldn't. They should ask point blank "what are you doing about it". They don't know how these guys operate, so its all just justification for not going after the transhippers.
The other problem are some of the promotions the big dogs get. When someone can sell products at dealer sheet, don't get mad at the guy who sells at sheet, since they are making money. The manufacturer is either giving to0 big a discount to some people, or they aren't disciplined so when they have a slow month they have a huge sale that encourages people to buy much more than they need to get that discount. Oh, and no matter what happens in the economy (9/11 for example) they expect growth year after year. So the dealer has to meet these unrealistic sales goals, or else. So it might be easier to risk losing the line by selling out the back door than to lose it for not selling enough out the front door.
The reps deserve some of the blame as well. Some would sell their mom if it got them to the next bonus level. They look the other way, they figure out ways to get in on the gravy train and since there is little risk for some brands, why not?
Right now, there are a number of distributors in the US who are transhipping. There isn't a way around it. I have shopped some of our competitors and had items shipped and it was drop shipped from somewhere else for them. Do some of the major Japanese manufacturers care? I don't think they do. They don't really want to know where the product is going. They pay lip service, but they don't really care. Clarion cares. You buy online from an unauthorized source, they won't warranty it for you. They feel like the consumer has been warned, and they need to protect their customers (the dealers).
Originally posted by MR2NR:
I want some feedback from both consumers, retailers and manufacturers about unauthorized e-tailers. I'm having a huge pissing contest right now with one of them and have been asked to "build" a forum topic for this.
For those of you who do not know what this is, it is a internet based company that buys equipment from whoever and sells it online. While there are some great e-tailer sites out there that are fully in compliance with the dealer agreements from the manufacturer, there are many that are not. It is these e-tailers that my forum topic is designed to make the consumer aware about.
Some of the claims and facts you may have heard of before, others I expect will be added by your comments. This is in any consumers best interest as I as a retailer hate to say I'm sorry Mr. Customer, but you have no warranty. And the fight begins because they did not know any better when they purchased their product from the e-tailer.
Here are some basic facts.
- huge shipping charges
- huge delay in getting products
- company here today, gone tomorrow with your $
- no manufacturer warranty
- remanufactured products sold as new
- no dealer agreement to sell products
- possible money laundering
While I understand the need and desire to save dollars as this is how I got into this business 16 years ago, I also understand the need of the customer to some into a store that is an authorized dealer. I as a dealer in Canada have very strict dealer agreements that must be adhered to regarding sales of product on the internet, any reputable company would do the same. Your comments / flames / advice is always welcome and anticipated. Be it stories on if you've gotten burned, payed huge shipping $, had a good experience, have found it hard to find a good e-tailer, whatever. Again this is in no way connected to this site and the superbly run and authorized e-tailer that responds on this site.
Rob Atkinson
I want some feedback from both consumers, retailers and manufacturers about unauthorized e-tailers. I'm having a huge pissing contest right now with one of them and have been asked to "build" a forum topic for this.
For those of you who do not know what this is, it is a internet based company that buys equipment from whoever and sells it online. While there are some great e-tailer sites out there that are fully in compliance with the dealer agreements from the manufacturer, there are many that are not. It is these e-tailers that my forum topic is designed to make the consumer aware about.
Some of the claims and facts you may have heard of before, others I expect will be added by your comments. This is in any consumers best interest as I as a retailer hate to say I'm sorry Mr. Customer, but you have no warranty. And the fight begins because they did not know any better when they purchased their product from the e-tailer.
Here are some basic facts.
- huge shipping charges
- huge delay in getting products
- company here today, gone tomorrow with your $
- no manufacturer warranty
- remanufactured products sold as new
- no dealer agreement to sell products
- possible money laundering
While I understand the need and desire to save dollars as this is how I got into this business 16 years ago, I also understand the need of the customer to some into a store that is an authorized dealer. I as a dealer in Canada have very strict dealer agreements that must be adhered to regarding sales of product on the internet, any reputable company would do the same. Your comments / flames / advice is always welcome and anticipated. Be it stories on if you've gotten burned, payed huge shipping $, had a good experience, have found it hard to find a good e-tailer, whatever. Again this is in no way connected to this site and the superbly run and authorized e-tailer that responds on this site.
Rob Atkinson
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,770
Shaughn i realize that fs an bb employ pay taxes and all but
the diffenence between a local store and an american store it that the profit from the local store gets spent locally and the american store gets shipped south of the border
don't take this as an american hater statment
i just beleive in stimulating the local economy to which i will see the most back from
and also bb and fs can inflate the cost of goods sold to themselves so that they will pay less taxes here
a practice done alot by the japanese
also big box store existed before fs and bb
as for bigger should get a better price is a very unfair practice
why should they be entitled to a better price than me
its easy to say from the other side of the fence
the diffenence between a local store and an american store it that the profit from the local store gets spent locally and the american store gets shipped south of the border
don't take this as an american hater statment
i just beleive in stimulating the local economy to which i will see the most back from
and also bb and fs can inflate the cost of goods sold to themselves so that they will pay less taxes here
a practice done alot by the japanese
also big box store existed before fs and bb
as for bigger should get a better price is a very unfair practice
why should they be entitled to a better price than me
its easy to say from the other side of the fence
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,770
jrace what i feel that what fs and bb are doing to resale price is no different than what unauthorized internet sales are doing which is basterdize the price
as in selling what they don't sell
what would you suggest i sell
preferably a well recognized name brand and make it one with a comparable pricing
what head units do i have a choice on alpine and eclipes
sure i could upsell a few people to one but most customers don't want to be upsold
i have had many sales reps try and back up there words by proving that they can move any customers up
i have yet to see one lock a sale to something the customer was not already set to buy
most consumers purchasing car audio are very savy and know whats comparable what the sale prices are out there
i have good customers remind me whats on sale at fs and bb all the time
p.s im not pissed im just stating a fact
as in selling what they don't sell
what would you suggest i sell
preferably a well recognized name brand and make it one with a comparable pricing
what head units do i have a choice on alpine and eclipes
sure i could upsell a few people to one but most customers don't want to be upsold
i have had many sales reps try and back up there words by proving that they can move any customers up
i have yet to see one lock a sale to something the customer was not already set to buy
most consumers purchasing car audio are very savy and know whats comparable what the sale prices are out there
i have good customers remind me whats on sale at fs and bb all the time
p.s im not pissed im just stating a fact
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,770
oneeye i agree with you 100% most manufactures could care less and will tell you differently
there is a mobile guy who sells units for less than i pay for
when i phoned and told them (distributor) they wanted to know who it was
they know who they sold it to
where its coming from and there just dumping the **** just to make there numbers when theing are slow
he also sells clarion to
any japanese head unit he has on a regular basis
there is a mobile guy who sells units for less than i pay for
when i phoned and told them (distributor) they wanted to know who it was
they know who they sold it to
where its coming from and there just dumping the **** just to make there numbers when theing are slow
he also sells clarion to
any japanese head unit he has on a regular basis
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,260
Originally posted by pinhead:
as for bigger should get a better price is a very unfair practice
why should they be entitled to a better price than me
its easy to say from the other side of the fence
as for bigger should get a better price is a very unfair practice
why should they be entitled to a better price than me
its easy to say from the other side of the fence
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,770
yes you have a point orion so but is it fair to the next guy
i don't beleive in double stantard in pricing
you shot yourself in the foot for this
so i have a customer that comes into my store and buys a radio for $150
next a guy walks in a buys 40 radio's and i charge him $100
now do you think the guy who just payed $150 would be happy and walk into my store again
p.s. you have a shop orion?
[ March 12, 2004, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: pinhead ]
i don't beleive in double stantard in pricing
you shot yourself in the foot for this
so i have a customer that comes into my store and buys a radio for $150
next a guy walks in a buys 40 radio's and i charge him $100
now do you think the guy who just payed $150 would be happy and walk into my store again
p.s. you have a shop orion?
[ March 12, 2004, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: pinhead ]
