Who would you go with for wiring? and why?
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 866
Originally posted by Dukk:
It is. If you have been told that skin effect is present at audio frequencies then you have been misinformed. [img]smile.gif[/img]
It is. If you have been told that skin effect is present at audio frequencies then you have been misinformed. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Oh and Paul, have fun trying to snake that solid core through your car. But I see what you are trying to say [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Yankee
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
I do feel wire makes a difference sonically, I am not going to drag this tread down to a debate on wire and sonic character (we can start its own thread for that). [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Anyway I am just being the dissenting voice here to let sLammeds15 know this is not a universal opinion that wire types don’t make a difference sonically. He hasn’t actually said he cares about it so it isn’t worthy of recommending one based on sound.
And sLammeds hasn’t actually said which wire/cable in his car he is working on. If I were to say two things on wire in general in a car, 1) I don’t like clear connectors they have no UV protection, 2) I don’t like PVC insulation (toxic gas when it burns and only average thermal performance).
As for skin effect…. There is skin effect at audio freq at least according to the text stuff I can find on this topic. Basically internal resistance increases as freq increases. I will say every cable manufacturer has claims on this and other issues, and it appears that every design but the add copy you are reading is inferior. Quite frankly they can say anything they want because they are proposing theory, and it is theory because it cant be proven nor disproven. Once it can be disproven it can no longer be called a theory.
Anyway I am just being the dissenting voice here to let sLammeds15 know this is not a universal opinion that wire types don’t make a difference sonically. He hasn’t actually said he cares about it so it isn’t worthy of recommending one based on sound.
And sLammeds hasn’t actually said which wire/cable in his car he is working on. If I were to say two things on wire in general in a car, 1) I don’t like clear connectors they have no UV protection, 2) I don’t like PVC insulation (toxic gas when it burns and only average thermal performance).
As for skin effect…. There is skin effect at audio freq at least according to the text stuff I can find on this topic. Basically internal resistance increases as freq increases. I will say every cable manufacturer has claims on this and other issues, and it appears that every design but the add copy you are reading is inferior. Quite frankly they can say anything they want because they are proposing theory, and it is theory because it cant be proven nor disproven. Once it can be disproven it can no longer be called a theory.
Yankee
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Based on appearance I would select one that matches the theme of the car or its external paint job. As far as construction goes the Streetwire, Knu, Monster are all good. I am not one for showing off brand names on my ride so I tend to go for unobtrusive stuff. But there is A LOT of good looking accessories from PG (and knu, streetwires, stinger, monster) but I like PGs look. I haven’t seen Hooker?
BTW is this Power, RCA or speaker wire we are talking about?
BTW is this Power, RCA or speaker wire we are talking about?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by slow/n\low:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dukk:
It is. If you have been told that skin effect is present at audio frequencies then you have been misinformed. [img]smile.gif[/img]
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dukk:
It is. If you have been told that skin effect is present at audio frequencies then you have been misinformed. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Oh and Paul, have fun trying to snake that solid core through your car. But I see what you are trying to say [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]But I already bought the pipe [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]
Guest
Posts: n/a
A little on Skin effect: http://whatis.techtarget.com/definit...1369%2C00.html
This one's a little more technical
http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/skin/
The rest of the hits I got are primarily sites dealing with radio frequencies.
People can draw their own conclusions from the above but personally, since I won't be driving 40khz tweeters with 2"diameter solid core wire I don't pay much attention to skin effect [img]tongue.gif[/img]
This one's a little more technical
http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/skin/The rest of the hits I got are primarily sites dealing with radio frequencies.
People can draw their own conclusions from the above but personally, since I won't be driving 40khz tweeters with 2"diameter solid core wire I don't pay much attention to skin effect [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Yankee
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
A 60 Hz sine wave will cycle once every .017 sec (17ms).
A 10,000 Hz sine wave will cycle once every .0001 sec (.1 ms)
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/...ect/page2.html - shows power loss at audio freq not much but the audio range is affected
http://rust.lbl.gov/~gtp/DOM/Cable/ makes the point cables perform differently (and in theory supports my statement that cables can sound different) but notice that the length is in km
A 10,000 Hz sine wave will cycle once every .0001 sec (.1 ms)
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/...ect/page2.html - shows power loss at audio freq not much but the audio range is affected
http://rust.lbl.gov/~gtp/DOM/Cable/ makes the point cables perform differently (and in theory supports my statement that cables can sound different) but notice that the length is in km
Yankee
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect simple easy formula to determine depth of freq path (table on bottom of sheet)
http://ecmweb.com/ar/electric_basics_hz_power/index.htm this is a book promo on 400Hz, they are discussing how skin affects 400Hz power distribution (400 Hz distribution systems behave more like DC circuits than they do 60 Hz systems as far as conductor size and circuit breaker performance
http://ecmweb.com/ar/electric_basics_hz_power/index.htm this is a book promo on 400Hz, they are discussing how skin affects 400Hz power distribution (400 Hz distribution systems behave more like DC circuits than they do 60 Hz systems as far as conductor size and circuit breaker performance
Yankee
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
This link is painfull to read but has good info [img]graemlins/boring.gif[/img] http://www.pitt.edu/AFShome/s/z/szek...enet/cable.txt
http://www.daetwyler.de/e/products/u...erminology.htm a good page for better discussions on what is important when designing a cable in addition to the skin effect.
http://www.biccgeneral.co.nz/Technical/10.3.2.1.pdf a very good and easy to read discussion on an effect that is simular to the skin effect but may be a much bigger sonic contributor.
http://www.daetwyler.de/e/products/u...erminology.htm a good page for better discussions on what is important when designing a cable in addition to the skin effect.
http://www.biccgeneral.co.nz/Technical/10.3.2.1.pdf a very good and easy to read discussion on an effect that is simular to the skin effect but may be a much bigger sonic contributor.
