Ok, ok... for everyone calling the install unsafe, you'll be happy to know that work has begun for the indoor part of the installation.

We took the whole door appart, cut out part of the sheet metal inside to start making the fiberglass box. The ring for the speaker of course is made of 3/4" MDF. Work continues tomorrow. :P

 

as for that amount of power been ther done that many times its great but as for your most recent update why did you strip you outer door skin? and are you useing a heatgun in a vain attempt to speed the curing of your fiberglass!?
For the latter question I sure as hell hope not unaided in cure time fiberglass has up to a 10 percent shrinkage rate but when heated excessivly that increases and with too much catalyst and or heat it DOES start on fire and the fumes will kill you I've learned this the hard way (obviously not the kill part) but I've narrowly avoided serious injury because of my ignorance in attempting to assist with these chemical reactions.

 

Interesting Post as it makes me think I have set up my front end incorrectly since I listen between 80% and 100% of the volume availabe from my system. My HU is an eclipse 8445 and balanced to the amp. I have a zapco 1000.4 set up as 2 channel running focal speakers. Since I am new maybe I need to look at how it is set up. I have in the fronts a set of KP100 crossed over by the zapco amp at 300 mhz to a set of ks13 5subs in the door panels and I feel I do not have enough volume somtimes even though I know it is probably because the Sq. I guess I am running about 300 watts aside and therfore I feel I should not require tis much power to be deaf or maybe that is the problem that maybe I am already getting there. Any way I have decided to add another Zapco 1000.4 to my system to power a pair of elate sw6 subs.

 

First things first, YES, a heatgun was used to aid in the curing process. But, one must keep in mind that the temperature outside was around 2~3 degrees. We've since moved the work to the garage which is at a fair bit warmer. Now, that first box was scrapped as window mechanism and stuff proved to be a big problem. So, we patched the hole back up, and moved to the rear of the door. Door molding will continue tomorrow. I forgot my camera last time, so no pics of that part of the progress.

Anyways, as far as removing the outerskin of the door, it really made working in the door easier, and it takes 5 minutes to do. So, it was worth it.

Bcoulas, I think your problem for volume lies elsewhere than your power. For subbass, you're using only 5" drivers, and getting a pair of 6½" drivers, although helpfull, won't solve your problem. You need to get some larger subs in there to move large amounts of air to get up in DBs. If you've balanced your volume out, then, you're most likely not pushing your K2Ps to their limit at all. If you get something like 10" ou 12" subs in there (even just one), then you'll be able to push your speakers harder than you are right now while still maintaining a well balanced tonality. Using the KS13 subs up front will greatly aid in pulling your bass up front when using a large sub in the trunk. That's what I was originaly aiming for when I got my ES-06+ "mini" subs... But, turns out, they also helped out in getting a few more DBs out of the rest as the power handling was increased since they don't play as low as before.

 

sirsleepsalot thanks for the info concerning my present setup and you are correct I am probably not pushing my Focals to the limit as I have no gain added to the amp to increase DB's. SQ is my ultimate goal but I am not sure that size of sub means everthing when it comes to bass. I presently have a set of speakers in my home that does not have any cones and will reach 18 hz Although I am new to car audio I have a fair bit of understandind when it come to home stereo's. I realize watts do not relate to db as the ohms and efficiency of the speakers also come into play. I do not care about volume as much as hearing quality of music and you are correct that maybe my 6.5" subs may not add the bass that I might want later but it is important to me that my system is hidden and therfore I do not want large subs. The elate subs are suppose to reach 25hz and if this is true then the bass should be sufficient. It is part of the reason I spent extra for smaller subs. If it was a bad decision I guess my next upgrade will be larger subs.

 

Well, the way I see it, and I could be wrong, this is just speculation from my the inner workings of my odd brain... lol

Frequency = Cycles per unit of time (In this case, Hz, and hence, cycles per second).
Volume will come from the velocity and the amount of air pushed by the speaker. So, if at 30hz, your 6½" speaker reaches it's xmax at full volume (let's say it's linear xmax is 13mm), then, in one second, your speaker has to move 60 times (since a 30hz = 30 times all in and 30 times all out) twice it's linear x-max. So, 60 X 26mm. So, within that second, your speaker cone has traveled 1560mm total.

Now, since volume is a factor of velocity and quantity, we need to figure out how much air that travel has moved in that second. So, it's distance X pi X half diameter squared. So, 1560 * 3.1416 * 3.25² = 51 765mm³ of air moved at 30hz in one second.

Let's hypotheticaly say that this gives you a dB level of 110dB. Now, let's compare to a 12" sub. How much travel will the 12" need to go to give out the same level ? So, we calculate everything backwards replacing the half diameter with that of the 12" sub.
Distance /s = 51 765 / 3.1416 / 6²
Distance /s = 457mm
So, the speaker would only need 7.6mm (and that's both ways combined). One way would be 3.8mm excursion to acheive the same 110dB.

Now, to move the same amount of air, but at 20hz, the 12" sub would need to use 5.71mm of it's xmax.

The 6.5" woofer on the other hand would need to use 19.5mm, but, we've already given it an x-max of 13mm. And, that's all used up to give you your 110db @ 30hz. So, it would then be moving 34510mm³ of air in that second. Hence, 1.5 times less air. And, if my understanding is correct, that's around 2dBs less.

Ok, now, like I said, all this is speculation from what I've been pondering while overly bored at work. If someone knows otherwise and wishes to correct what I've said, or can proove all this to be wrong, please do. This is just my own whacky theory. Not to be confused with proven facts. If someone can support or explain what is the real correlation between all these factors, please, explain away ! I'd like to know if I'm right about any of this.

 

It's not whacky. Sound is often hard to nail down to empirical figures since there are so many other things at work but the theory is sound.

When it comes to subbass the old saying of "there's no replacement for displacement" is completely valid. Bigger cones get louder while moving less. You will wind up with better SQ by moving a big woofer less than working the bag off a small one.

Those 6.5" Morel may play 25hz but will it be at a volume that is acceptable? Hell, a good set of headphones will recreate subbass but not in a car Really, it's pretty easy to tuck a 10 into a car and keep it hidden or fairly inobtrusive. Hopefully they work out for you but I would have went a different way.

 

The formulas were great and make sense to me and so it will be hard to get good bass at high volumes which is not what I am trying to accomplish. I appreciate the information and once installed I will let you know if it is suited to my listening needs.

Brent

 

It sure appears that you are after more volume.......perhaps you could give us a better idea what you are after. A larger sub(s) will remain linear(lower distortion) than a smaller speaker while trying to play at a comfortable listening volume inside of a vehicle, even the best quiet vehicles still have a lot of noise which will mask or cover up various frequencies....mainly bass frequencies while driving. This also means that you will need a bunch of power to overcome all that extra noise. A single ten or a pair of eights will do a fine job indeed in a sound quality vehicle.

 

To clarify I am not unhappy about my volume that I am receiving. Since car audio is relatively new to me there was a comment earlier in the thread that made me question my setup is all. I am not sure how to pull the quotes but it was this comment.


"As far as power usage... I doubt I ever use more than... oh... 4 or 5 watts ? Maybe 10 if I want a slight ringing in my ears.....: "

If this is true with me having 600 wats up front I am wondering if I should be playing at 80% for comfortable listening. I rarely play at 100% but sometimes it is nice to turn it up for the occasional song that I like.


I am only adding the 6.5" subs to enhance my bass while listening at the 80%

I am wondering if the gain needs to be adjusted to improve SQ or whether I should leave it turned all the way down if I am happy with the volume.

To me it makes more sense to leave the gain down but I am not sure.

Tomorrow I will test my volume with spl meter to verify the actual sound level I am listening at.

I also would like to know if it is better to set up 1 amp for each side or leave the front on one amp and set up the other amp for just the subs. Either way would give me the same power to each speaker. ie 150 watts for the 4" and tweeter 150 watts for the 5" sub and then bridge the other 2 Channels for 500 watts for the 6.5".