A different approach to TUNING
Thread Starter
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Just when you thought you knew it all....
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.com/for...opic.php?t=299
I first met Michael in '92, he's a music enthusiast through and through. I thought a few of you would enjoy this, as the Elite Car Audio and Carsound crowd seem to be digging in for lessons.
He's different, but isn't that the exciting part?
Adam
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.com/for...opic.php?t=299
I first met Michael in '92, he's a music enthusiast through and through. I thought a few of you would enjoy this, as the Elite Car Audio and Carsound crowd seem to be digging in for lessons.
He's different, but isn't that the exciting part?
Adam
Guest
Posts: n/a
interesting take on it, i understand harmonics and the way our ears interpret sound basded on harmonics. if i understand what he is saying, its that people using anti rattle materials are changing the sound at the same time eliminating rattles, doesnt sound very groundbreaking to me, isnt that the idea. and of course you stereo will sound different in your garage compared to when you drive, compared to when you are sitting in a parking lot. that can be attributed to many things, listener fatigue, speaker temperature ect, again not to groundbreaking. unless i totally missed what he is trying to say perhaps im over simplifying, i dunno, interesting read though
Yankee
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Michael is a very interesting personality. In the forum he talked down physics a bit much but I appreciate the artistic approach. There is art and science to this game and you can not ignore either. The approach he presents is also the approach of Sonus Faber, though I think a few things he has said were off base in general I would say he was a visionary. If he can produce great products he will be called a genius over time.
I also think he is trying pretty hard to be a philosopher but I liked a lot of what he had to say.
I also think he is trying pretty hard to be a philosopher but I liked a lot of what he had to say.
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 146
I think he's got a point on where you tune your stereo will sound different, if you tune your car indoors,the walls in the garage might act as an extra damping source thus creating the illussion of dynamics inside the car...but when you drive the car into a judging lane, lets say outside somewhere, then it might be a different story because now there are no walls to damp any distortion or...out of tune frequencies that you didn't hear when you where inside a building.
I agree that tuning your system outside somwhere is more practical, because there are no walls to damp the sound,and that's what you want to create a highly damped sound when the vehicle is outdoors.
I still beleive though that damping behind the speakers provides that extra leverage when you need to keep your speakers sounding loud and tight. I've so far had excellent results from damping in behind my speakers.
I agree that tuning your system outside somwhere is more practical, because there are no walls to damp the sound,and that's what you want to create a highly damped sound when the vehicle is outdoors.
I still beleive though that damping behind the speakers provides that extra leverage when you need to keep your speakers sounding loud and tight. I've so far had excellent results from damping in behind my speakers.
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First of all, Michael must have a water leakage problem as his car's are all dampened, lol. The correct usage would be damped, which doesn't involve any liquids. Second of all, I call BS on his damping theories. Sure if you apply damping to an instrument it will change it's sound, and in car audio if you applied damping to your driver the sound will change, but applying damping to the car is to remove exterior interference, and foam to stop two panels from rubbing just makes way to much sence for some voodoo existentialist tuner guy to change my opinion of it.
Originally posted by JohnVroom:
The approach he presents is also the approach of Sonus Faber, though I think a few things he has said were off base in general I would say he was a visionary. If he can produce great products he will be called a genius over time.
I also think he is trying pretty hard to be a philosopher but I liked a lot of what he had to say.
The approach he presents is also the approach of Sonus Faber, though I think a few things he has said were off base in general I would say he was a visionary. If he can produce great products he will be called a genius over time.
I also think he is trying pretty hard to be a philosopher but I liked a lot of what he had to say.
Please inform me if I am incorrect, but wasn't the first person to consider room acoustics Roy Allison? All the speakers he ever designed took how the speaker interacted with the room into consideration.
I also find it interesting that a number of manufactors (Sonus Faber, Polk, Jamo, Allison et al.) are coming out with "nipple shaped" tweeters -- the same shape Allisons have had for over 20 years.
Okay back on topic -- I think it makes sense that we have to consider the acoustics of the vehicle; however, it is going to take a while for me to wrap my head around the idea of considering a motor vehicle a musical instrument. Nevertheless, it is food for thought as up until this point many of us have tried to turn our cars into anacronic chambers.
Anacronic? Do you mean anechoic (non-reflecting)?
I can't say that I agree with his line of thinking on vibrations and the benefits of them. I don't want my plastic panels buzzing and vibrating sympathetically to the music because I personally feel you can't tune a plastic side panel to help with the sound of the music in the car. Just like when the snares on a snare drum may vibrate when a tuba next to it is playing, I don't think it helps the sound.
As far as 'ongoing, continual tuning' goes, you do that and you will miss the entire point of installing a car stereo: enjoying the music. If you are on constant 'tune mode', then you will never relax and just enjoy what you are hearing. I suppose one could muck around with the tuning of a speaker by placing damping 'dots' or what-not to individualize the sound of the speaker for your system, but to say the damping the vehicle to minimize vibrations and other destructive harmonics is not beneficial or can be overdone is absurd.
[ October 12, 2004, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: SUX 2BU ]
I can't say that I agree with his line of thinking on vibrations and the benefits of them. I don't want my plastic panels buzzing and vibrating sympathetically to the music because I personally feel you can't tune a plastic side panel to help with the sound of the music in the car. Just like when the snares on a snare drum may vibrate when a tuba next to it is playing, I don't think it helps the sound.
As far as 'ongoing, continual tuning' goes, you do that and you will miss the entire point of installing a car stereo: enjoying the music. If you are on constant 'tune mode', then you will never relax and just enjoy what you are hearing. I suppose one could muck around with the tuning of a speaker by placing damping 'dots' or what-not to individualize the sound of the speaker for your system, but to say the damping the vehicle to minimize vibrations and other destructive harmonics is not beneficial or can be overdone is absurd.
[ October 12, 2004, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: SUX 2BU ]
