"Keep following me on this. Here's an example. You spend all your time getting your car ready for a show and in your shop everything sounds fine. Also, your equipment is hitting the numbers you want it to. Now you go to the competition and all of a sudden the judge gets in your car and things have changed and he doesn't find the same numbers and magic that you do. Here's why. You’re not back in your shop, with your shop’s humidity or your shop’s confined acoustical space. Plus, how much has the car vibrated since you let your shop?"- Micheal Green.

This is exactly why most competitors tune while at the show. Tune your car at home in the driveway before the show to get it to the point that it sounds great.....then when you get to the show you work out the finer details. Does that not make sense?

Technically, temperature, humidity and location all affect the way your car will sound, that's why when I tune a car, it's sitting in the driveway and the temperature and humidity are gona be relatively close to the next day at the show when I do the fine tuning.

As for body panels rattling around when the car is being driven, So what?? The body panels on most cars are pretty secure, there gonna move a bit while your driving and then return to thier original location when the car was not moving.....you don't tune your car when your driving, so why would it make any difference if you've driven the car to the show? The difference would be so minimal it would be inaudible.

I will have to agree with Dereck and say that some of his idea's, while interesting, are BS.

 

His ideas are interesting, mostly BS, but some of the principles can be applied, though in a much less extreme form... after all, we're talking about reproducing music, not producing music. As someone who plays an acoustic instrument (the violin) I see very, very few similarities between an instrument and a vehicle, but I do see where treating a vehicle as a mucis producing device, almost an instrument, can be beneficial.

BTW, if somebody put 2 square inches of car audio sound deadener on my violin, as he suggests, it'd sound very different... because it'd be shoved up someone's ****!

 

Sure the guy is interesting...but I still don't understand his reasoning on the damping issue

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SUX 2BU:
[QB] Anacronic? Do you mean anechoic (non-reflecting)?

Yes, sorry for the spelling error

and no, I do not consume "herb" -- just Guinness for me, thanks. [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]

 

^ I think a hyperbole high?

You are incorrect but only to a point. Roy Allison, Paul Klipsch, A. Bose all did this after the Pro-audio guys pioneered it. The Allison and Klipsch speakers did a better job of it and made it the focal point of their design and marketing. Altec and Tannoy were doing it earlier in pro and home audio primarily so they wouldn’t over load rooms with bass... but I will say I think Roy and Paul did it better in their systems designed for the home. The old timers used corner loading to couple the bass horns to the walls to get their LF notes.
Remember they were doing room treatment in Shakespears day

I think they are all using Scan tweeters (Sonus for sure) but the concept can be copied since it is so popular at the moment I would be surprised if there weren’t knock offs.

[ October 14, 2004, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: JohnVroom ]

 

Where I think Mr. Green was going in his article is to properly treat your vehicles overall sound field (no doubt using his products). 90% of the kids out there know about Dynamat and Brown Bread etc. but that is it, and they use it improperly (you cant expect them to search the internet or …GOD FORBID open a book). Retailers make decent $ selling and installing the Dynabread so to widen the choices available to the consumer that would cost the retailer money. Dynamat is great at what it does; damping the cars sheet metal. It is also great at LF attenuation and folk’s use it much like an audio hammer to ‘sound deaden’ (whatever that marketing term means) the car. This is fine for isolating the car from its outside environment but it does very little to the inside environment other than lower the noise floor and firm up the sheet metal. Mr. Green’s focus was on the interior of the car and how we need to properly treat it. The same rules apply absorption, refraction/diffraction, damping, are all good when applied in the correct proportion. Ever go in a car that was over damped and your voice sounded different? That is near to, or at, the point at which you have over treated your car. I have over done it others have too. Once you have absorbed a sound you cannot get it back, this leads to an unnatural sound field or one that is not believable. In that situation sometimes diffusion is a better choice (one of Mr. Greens points) since you lose less overall sonic intensity but you loose the glare or emphasis.

I think putting vibrations to work to do good is noble and all but … it strikes me as beautiful sounding distortion (like using EQ and tubed amplification). I do like the concept of treating every car as unique and individually tuning them. I would consider Mr. Greens products, as well as Dynabread and BrownMat, 3M Thinsulate, and certainly Cascade’s product line since it covers the entire audio spectrum.

I DID NOT like his feeding of the Audiophilia-Nervosa syndrome…. Tweak, tweak, and more tweak. It really makes the obsessive compulsive in us come alive.

If you are to be judged inside or outside is irrelevant (the doors are shut and windows are up). What is relevant is the noise field that enters you car. If you tune at night when it is quiet then the next day the system will sound thin and anemic. Tune during the day in a supermarket parking lot and the mid and low bass will be too strong at night in your garage. Tune at a show and you are likely to guess correctly.

 

What I like is that he contradicts himself.

He'll say in one post that he LOVES to tweak and tune, and yet in another post he'll say, oh I love to keep my system simple.

Well which is it?

You know, it's like, either you like the tuneability of a top of the line Denon/Marantz unit, or simplistic design of the older analogue Bedini, but you can't have both so make up your mind.

 

I'm thinking an IB sub mounted to a sheet of 1/2" plywood, between the back seat and trunk. Mounted only at the edges, now there's some resonant dB gain!!!! And if you use marine grade plywood....well

[ October 15, 2004, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Car Trek ]