Does the Audio Control DQX degrade signal quality?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Some random observations and opinions:
I am not at all surprised that an AC product was less than stunning SQ wise. I have had my issues with AC. Some love it so I will say no more.
IMO unless you are competing against an RTA (or possibly even if you are) a 5-10 band parametric EQ is far superior to a 31band graphic eq. if you need more than 5-10bands you should start over anyway.
Processors genrally suck and should be avoided at all costs. Unfortunately an active crossover is usually a necessity for most systems and most systems benefit from some EQ. The challenge as we see here is finding one that only does it's job and does not screw other stuff up.
Although I LOVE a basic no frills deck (gimme triple outs and I am done) there are some very solid reasons for going with an integrated system like the P9 combo or an Alpine combo with a 700 or 900.
Finally, after all is said and done - it comes down to the install. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
I am not at all surprised that an AC product was less than stunning SQ wise. I have had my issues with AC. Some love it so I will say no more.
IMO unless you are competing against an RTA (or possibly even if you are) a 5-10 band parametric EQ is far superior to a 31band graphic eq. if you need more than 5-10bands you should start over anyway.
Processors genrally suck and should be avoided at all costs. Unfortunately an active crossover is usually a necessity for most systems and most systems benefit from some EQ. The challenge as we see here is finding one that only does it's job and does not screw other stuff up.
Although I LOVE a basic no frills deck (gimme triple outs and I am done) there are some very solid reasons for going with an integrated system like the P9 combo or an Alpine combo with a 700 or 900.
Finally, after all is said and done - it comes down to the install. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 164
Well I"m only running a Kenwood X659 hu, I'm wondering if I'd be better off going with an Eclipse CD 8053 (or something comparable for the price?), rather than getting into processors and stuff.. after all that's where it all starts.
Any opinions or comments would be greatly appreciated.
Any opinions or comments would be greatly appreciated.
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 429
Originally posted by Dukk:
IMO unless you are competing against an RTA (or possibly even if you are) a 5-10 band parametric EQ is far superior to a 31band graphic eq. if you need more than 5-10bands you should start over anyway.
Processors genrally suck and should be avoided at all costs. Unfortunately an active crossover is usually a necessity for most systems and most systems benefit from some EQ. The challenge as we see here is finding one that only does it's job and does not screw other stuff up.
IMO unless you are competing against an RTA (or possibly even if you are) a 5-10 band parametric EQ is far superior to a 31band graphic eq. if you need more than 5-10bands you should start over anyway.
Processors genrally suck and should be avoided at all costs. Unfortunately an active crossover is usually a necessity for most systems and most systems benefit from some EQ. The challenge as we see here is finding one that only does it's job and does not screw other stuff up.
:sirring the pot:
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Agree with Duck. Bottom line is look at the environment you're installing in. You have to be a complete MORON to think that you're going to nail it without some sort of processing help. Don't fall for the "purist wanna-be" bull****e. Simple is better BUT, there are limits to how simple you can be and the ability to be able to get it to sound right. Adam's dad summed it up about right with the analogy of a sound system installed into a bathroom. All bad.
Thread Starter
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Well said Dukk!
I haven't done any head unit swaps with my setup, so I don't have any experience with how different decks will sound. There are others on this forum that can answer that question better.
But...to summarize what I have read. High end decks are worth the price if the install is done well. I do not, however, endorse products like the Alpine 7990 for example. At some point you get into the laws of deminishing returns, where spending twice as much on a head unit will gain you 5% better sound.
I'm sure a few others can comment on this with more experience than myself.
Adam
[ March 15, 2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: PEI330Ci ]
I haven't done any head unit swaps with my setup, so I don't have any experience with how different decks will sound. There are others on this forum that can answer that question better.
But...to summarize what I have read. High end decks are worth the price if the install is done well. I do not, however, endorse products like the Alpine 7990 for example. At some point you get into the laws of deminishing returns, where spending twice as much on a head unit will gain you 5% better sound.
I'm sure a few others can comment on this with more experience than myself.
Adam
[ March 15, 2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: PEI330Ci ]
ok.
Yankee
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
I am not at all surprised that an AC product was less than stunning SQ wise. I have had my issues with AC. Some love it so I will say no more.
Processors genrally suck and should be avoided at all costs. Unfortunately an active crossover is usually a necessity for most systems and most systems benefit from some EQ. The challenge as we see here is finding one that only does it's job and does not screw other stuff up.
Agree with Duck. Bottom line is look at the environment you're installing in. You have to be a complete MORON to think that you're going to nail it without some sort of processing help. Don't fall for the "purist wanna-be" bull****e. Simple is better BUT, there are limits to how simple you can be and the ability to be able to get it to sound right. Adam's dad summed it up about right with the analogy of a sound system installed into a bathroom. All bad.
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 146
Ok...here's my REVIEW of the DQX.
I completley agree that to some point(ZERO SIGNAL DURING PLAYBACK) there is noticeable Distorion in the background. But it is very faint and can only be Imagined as a Anomalous blip and tear that occurs in the sound possibly from the processing.---- I have Monster Cable XLN mini rca' running to the back of my car. Unless your listening to the stereo with no sound full crank always, I do not think it should bother anyone. No one is perfect.
Test #1
My setup is a pair of VERITAS 75VD Aluminum horn Bodies. When I first tried tweaking them , I used a pair of Audio Control Eqt's for Eqing and a 24XS for crossover---Horns crossed over @1180HZ with 1% tolerance resistors. ----Stock 7 Band EQ Chrysler Cd changer DECK.---- David Navone LOC.
The horns are running off a 800a4, with a set of Accumatch per horn.(Accumatch cleans up the sound the horns produce very well, when listening with and with out accumtch you notice that any Microdistortion that occurs from impendance fluctuations from the amp are puicked up by the horns without the Accumatch But it tends to clear up the sound at very low volumes quite noticably with it installed.)
After turning EQ gains down on stock DECK to attempt to play music through Horns, I notice I have to turn the Gains down on the EQ all the way to be able to hear some sort of clean sound from the horns. At this point they break up and saturate the sound @ 3khz-5khz-----the frequncies were they are crossed over at 1KHZ---create a very NASAL throaty sound and they sound VERY harsh and distorted.
.NO soundstage either.
I remove the EQT's from the signal chain. I decide to purchase a DQT. The only reason I decided to purchase one is because I could not fit TWO units in my trunk, so I purchased a unit that was COMPACT. I was going to purchase other BRANDS SUCH AS PG, ORION, IMAGE DYNAMICS etc. But stuck with the DQT instead.
For my MID BASS I am using a 6" woofer crossed @ 90hz high pass in the stock DOORS.
After plugging this unit in I REALLY noticed the Difference in sound. The horns played CLEARER and didn't saturate at higher frequencies as they did with the EQT's Installed. The sound was very RICH although overall tonnally it was flat. When I increased an individual band frequency the sound didn't even get too BRIGHT or to the point of saturation, it was very controlled, although I had to still DECREASE the EQ settings on my DECK to just below flat in the 1 KHZ and 4khz Range I noticed that I did not have to turn it all the way down like I had before to reduce saturation at higher levels of MUSIC playing.
Although I am not using ANY rear speakers in my setup, the DTQ gave me a very SONIC AMBIENCE to my car...and created a LIVE THEATRE AMBIENCE to the listener. Very impressive. Although the curvature of the HORNS and my car's interior did have something to do with it...overall it still was able to sound VERY NATURAL.
TEST #2
I remove the DQT and place the DQX inline. For the horns I cross them over @ 1018HZ.
My midbass are crossed @ 120 HZ BANDPASS.Which rolls off with the X-over @ 1KHZ.according to Audio control test charts.
My SUBS are crossed over @30 HZ highpass @70HZ LP.
After plugging the unit in The slight harshness I had in my trouble fequencies between 3KHZ-5-KHZ DISAPEARED with no EQUALIZATION. The EQ was set to 0- GAIN on all frequncies. And the EQ's on my DECK were just BELOW full.
After playing with the EQ ON THE DECK I noticed that the SOUND was very WARM and when adjusting the EQ from my stock deck I noticed the sound was COMPLETELY FLAT, with no bright peaks during or between increments. The DIGITAL X-over really WARMED the sound up considerably compared to the 24XS----especially at the X-over frequency of the HORNS @ 1KHZ----There was no throaty sound or harsh passages during Drum tracks or FEMALE vocals.
These HORNS ATTACK you with Crystal clarity in their transients and they Don't mess around when it comes to QUICK impact withought any Harsh Overhang. When increasing or adjusting the DIGITAL EQ the sound was very still and centered at the DESIRED frequency band.----
It didn't seem to Blend into another band when adjusting it. And improved the OVERALL AMBIENCE inside the vehicle.
My soundstage extends to the front of my windsheild and to just 2" LEFT of the driver for GUITARS. Vocals appeared 2" Obove the center of the DASH and LEFT channel guitars were slightly past 5 " from passneger side. BUT this was all tested without EQ anything.
Overall my soundstage lifted from my FEET where my horns are to Just above the DASH. Probably liek it there But I am still playing around.
NIN tracks shredded with no SATURATION and the GUITARS SOUNDED VERY REAL with no break up.
Snares appeared out of nowhere, and was 2" LEFT of vocals.
Using a 15" Aliante for SUB BASS in an AP setup my MIDBASS Snapped. And the Aliante sub performed like a TOM SKIN on drum tracks, blending in very smoothly with the front stage.
ALthough the TONAL sound from the unit is VERY FLAT with no bright peaks it does a wonderfull JOB sonically to bring the MUSIC to LIFE at HIGHER volume levels without DISTORTING the MUSIC. And keeping the ORIGINAL sound of the recording REAL as possible.
If your loking to TWEAK a pair of horns or TWEETERS that seem very harsh this UNIT can do the job magnificantly with no problem. [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
I completley agree that to some point(ZERO SIGNAL DURING PLAYBACK) there is noticeable Distorion in the background. But it is very faint and can only be Imagined as a Anomalous blip and tear that occurs in the sound possibly from the processing.---- I have Monster Cable XLN mini rca' running to the back of my car. Unless your listening to the stereo with no sound full crank always, I do not think it should bother anyone. No one is perfect.
Test #1
My setup is a pair of VERITAS 75VD Aluminum horn Bodies. When I first tried tweaking them , I used a pair of Audio Control Eqt's for Eqing and a 24XS for crossover---Horns crossed over @1180HZ with 1% tolerance resistors. ----Stock 7 Band EQ Chrysler Cd changer DECK.---- David Navone LOC.
The horns are running off a 800a4, with a set of Accumatch per horn.(Accumatch cleans up the sound the horns produce very well, when listening with and with out accumtch you notice that any Microdistortion that occurs from impendance fluctuations from the amp are puicked up by the horns without the Accumatch But it tends to clear up the sound at very low volumes quite noticably with it installed.)
After turning EQ gains down on stock DECK to attempt to play music through Horns, I notice I have to turn the Gains down on the EQ all the way to be able to hear some sort of clean sound from the horns. At this point they break up and saturate the sound @ 3khz-5khz-----the frequncies were they are crossed over at 1KHZ---create a very NASAL throaty sound and they sound VERY harsh and distorted.
.NO soundstage either.I remove the EQT's from the signal chain. I decide to purchase a DQT. The only reason I decided to purchase one is because I could not fit TWO units in my trunk, so I purchased a unit that was COMPACT. I was going to purchase other BRANDS SUCH AS PG, ORION, IMAGE DYNAMICS etc. But stuck with the DQT instead.
For my MID BASS I am using a 6" woofer crossed @ 90hz high pass in the stock DOORS.
After plugging this unit in I REALLY noticed the Difference in sound. The horns played CLEARER and didn't saturate at higher frequencies as they did with the EQT's Installed. The sound was very RICH although overall tonnally it was flat. When I increased an individual band frequency the sound didn't even get too BRIGHT or to the point of saturation, it was very controlled, although I had to still DECREASE the EQ settings on my DECK to just below flat in the 1 KHZ and 4khz Range I noticed that I did not have to turn it all the way down like I had before to reduce saturation at higher levels of MUSIC playing.
Although I am not using ANY rear speakers in my setup, the DTQ gave me a very SONIC AMBIENCE to my car...and created a LIVE THEATRE AMBIENCE to the listener. Very impressive. Although the curvature of the HORNS and my car's interior did have something to do with it...overall it still was able to sound VERY NATURAL.
TEST #2
I remove the DQT and place the DQX inline. For the horns I cross them over @ 1018HZ.
My midbass are crossed @ 120 HZ BANDPASS.Which rolls off with the X-over @ 1KHZ.according to Audio control test charts.
My SUBS are crossed over @30 HZ highpass @70HZ LP.
After plugging the unit in The slight harshness I had in my trouble fequencies between 3KHZ-5-KHZ DISAPEARED with no EQUALIZATION. The EQ was set to 0- GAIN on all frequncies. And the EQ's on my DECK were just BELOW full.
After playing with the EQ ON THE DECK I noticed that the SOUND was very WARM and when adjusting the EQ from my stock deck I noticed the sound was COMPLETELY FLAT, with no bright peaks during or between increments. The DIGITAL X-over really WARMED the sound up considerably compared to the 24XS----especially at the X-over frequency of the HORNS @ 1KHZ----There was no throaty sound or harsh passages during Drum tracks or FEMALE vocals.
These HORNS ATTACK you with Crystal clarity in their transients and they Don't mess around when it comes to QUICK impact withought any Harsh Overhang. When increasing or adjusting the DIGITAL EQ the sound was very still and centered at the DESIRED frequency band.----
It didn't seem to Blend into another band when adjusting it. And improved the OVERALL AMBIENCE inside the vehicle.
My soundstage extends to the front of my windsheild and to just 2" LEFT of the driver for GUITARS. Vocals appeared 2" Obove the center of the DASH and LEFT channel guitars were slightly past 5 " from passneger side. BUT this was all tested without EQ anything.
Overall my soundstage lifted from my FEET where my horns are to Just above the DASH. Probably liek it there But I am still playing around.
NIN tracks shredded with no SATURATION and the GUITARS SOUNDED VERY REAL with no break up.
Snares appeared out of nowhere, and was 2" LEFT of vocals.
Using a 15" Aliante for SUB BASS in an AP setup my MIDBASS Snapped. And the Aliante sub performed like a TOM SKIN on drum tracks, blending in very smoothly with the front stage.
ALthough the TONAL sound from the unit is VERY FLAT with no bright peaks it does a wonderfull JOB sonically to bring the MUSIC to LIFE at HIGHER volume levels without DISTORTING the MUSIC. And keeping the ORIGINAL sound of the recording REAL as possible.
If your loking to TWEAK a pair of horns or TWEETERS that seem very harsh this UNIT can do the job magnificantly with no problem. [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
