Does it Make a Difference?
11-13-2010, 09:55 AM
#61
11-13-2010, 10:53 AM
#62
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Speaker cables have a profound effect on phase - which in my opinion is much more important than linear frequency response scores which are typically measured at low 1/3 per octave resolution...
The speaker cables also affect amplifier damping and passive cross-over performance...
Is speaker wire important - yes - but only in truly high-end home systems and not as much in noise automotive environments fed with iPods!
The speaker cables also affect amplifier damping and passive cross-over performance...
Is speaker wire important - yes - but only in truly high-end home systems and not as much in noise automotive environments fed with iPods!
11-13-2010, 08:12 PM
#63
wires affect phase? I need to see data backing this. But if the wire affects phase , then it should affect it equally from both sides thus making it a non-issue.
I don't know that I agree that phase is more important then FR. .. I mean if there is something wrong with the phase where will we see it?.... FR...no?
The whole speaker wire affecting damping factor is true, it is part of the "system damping factor" which is a non factor outside of concerts with very long runs of wire.
I don't know that I agree that phase is more important then FR. .. I mean if there is something wrong with the phase where will we see it?.... FR...no?
The whole speaker wire affecting damping factor is true, it is part of the "system damping factor" which is a non factor outside of concerts with very long runs of wire.
Last edited by AAAAAAA; 11-13-2010 at 08:15 PM.
11-14-2010, 02:52 AM
#65
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wires affect phase? I need to see data backing this. But if the wire affects phase , then it should affect it equally from both sides thus making it a non-issue.
I don't know that I agree that phase is more important then FR. .. I mean if there is something wrong with the phase where will we see it?.... FR...no?
The whole speaker wire affecting damping factor is true, it is part of the "system damping factor" which is a non factor outside of concerts with very long runs of wire.
I don't know that I agree that phase is more important then FR. .. I mean if there is something wrong with the phase where will we see it?.... FR...no?
The whole speaker wire affecting damping factor is true, it is part of the "system damping factor" which is a non factor outside of concerts with very long runs of wire.
Frequency response and phase are bedfellows in that the useable frequency response is determined the the time arrival of sound that is why I cited basic 1/3 octave RTA analysis scores as weak evidence of objected goodness. I should have also mentioned TDS as being more useful as it determines frequency response by looking at the time arrival of each center frequency being measured. In this way, it allows us to know what is dire t sound or reflected sound - direct sound can be improved with EQs but reflections can not. Therefore TDS (time delay spectrometry) along side of FFT analysis is allowing us to see sound more accurately the in the past.
So on other words, amps have signal delay, preamplifiers have signal delays, speakers have signal delays, cd players have signal delays, rooms have signal delays - anything that opposes the pure transfer us energy creates a time smear and the goal of a quality system is to bring all of these signals together in time, both electrically and acoustically. The closer one gets the more transparent and accurate the musical reproduction will be. The next goal is to keep noise out both the electrical paths and acoustic space.
Forgive the typo - hammered this out on my iPhone
11-14-2010, 06:47 AM
#66
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11-14-2010, 07:09 AM
#67
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While mostly an issue when using cables of grossly different lengths, I suppose really bad cables could have resistance differences that would be significant enough to cause shift (but I've never come across that).
Not sure where the OP was going with that, but phase shift is most obvious to me.
11-14-2010, 08:19 AM
#68
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Phase shifting.
While mostly an issue when using cables of grossly different lengths, I suppose really bad cables could have resistance differences that would be significant enough to cause shift (but I've never come across that).
Not sure where the OP was going with that, but phase shift is most obvious to me.
While mostly an issue when using cables of grossly different lengths, I suppose really bad cables could have resistance differences that would be significant enough to cause shift (but I've never come across that).
Not sure where the OP was going with that, but phase shift is most obvious to me.
11-14-2010, 09:45 AM
#69
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Why wouldn't I be serious?
You have a 30 foot garden hose and a 10 foot garden hose. You turn on the water supply to each at the same time. Do you think water will arrive at the end of each hose at the same time? Of course not! There's going to be a delay with the longer one.
Same principle applies with your speakers and their cables. Difference is we're talking extremely shorter delays than my garden hose example.
Moral of the story, use the same lengths of cable if you're running long, which in a car is a non-issue.
edit: looking through my books, I noted it there would need to be a difference of at least 100 feet of 12awg to notice anything.
You have a 30 foot garden hose and a 10 foot garden hose. You turn on the water supply to each at the same time. Do you think water will arrive at the end of each hose at the same time? Of course not! There's going to be a delay with the longer one.
Same principle applies with your speakers and their cables. Difference is we're talking extremely shorter delays than my garden hose example.
Moral of the story, use the same lengths of cable if you're running long, which in a car is a non-issue.
edit: looking through my books, I noted it there would need to be a difference of at least 100 feet of 12awg to notice anything.
Last edited by Donnie; 11-14-2010 at 10:05 AM.
11-14-2010, 11:43 AM
#70
well seeing as electricity (at least the electrical signal from amp to speaker) travels at light speed (or close enough to it), you'd need some damn long cables to make a noticeable difference in arrival times...186,000 miles per second or about 982 million feet per second...that's nano second territory...completely inaudible from an arrival time perspective. Just for a frame of reference...1 nanosecond is 1 billionth of a second, so a nano second is to a second what 1 second is to 32 years, or you'd need a speaker cable that runs around the world at the equator 7 times to make a one second difference in arrival time compared to one that was say a foot long.
Last edited by veeman; 11-14-2010 at 11:47 AM.
