Going to try SQ setup!!!
Thread Starter
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 604
After building the kicks in my truck i have heard things that i have NEVER heard before in a audio system. Although the kicks i made was my first attempt and VERY poorly built and aimed i wonder what it would sound like in a truly build SQ stereo. Hearing the fingers of a bass player slide down the neck of the guitar while searching for the next note makes me tingle! I want to have a shot on building a SQ setup for my truck. I know a truck is really not an ideal vehicle for a SQ setup but i think it is acheivable. I really don't know what it will take to do this but i want to give it a shot. I want to make it so I can play my music and hear EVERY detail in the sound. But i would also like to turn a **** of a remote gain and get some decent SPL.
What am i looking for for componats of a system eg. EQs, Crossovers, Deck, Subs, Speakers, Amps ECT.
Any and all help and suggestions on this topic would be helpfull.
As for my truck it is a Dodge Ram 50 single cab, short box. I have a cut through that i am planning on using for my sub(s) and amp rack.
Please feel free to post and email me.
Also if anyone around in my area(southern AB) that has a SQ setup and would let my demo it, it would be GREAT and drop me a line at shaun9@telus.net
What am i looking for for componats of a system eg. EQs, Crossovers, Deck, Subs, Speakers, Amps ECT.
Any and all help and suggestions on this topic would be helpfull.
As for my truck it is a Dodge Ram 50 single cab, short box. I have a cut through that i am planning on using for my sub(s) and amp rack.
Please feel free to post and email me.
Also if anyone around in my area(southern AB) that has a SQ setup and would let my demo it, it would be GREAT and drop me a line at shaun9@telus.net
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 342
good for you man, too many people shy away from SQ in my opinion. in your truck, you've got a daunting task ahead of you, but with the right advice and alot of sweat you have a unique platform in the D50. to my knowledge there is nobody running one of those in Canada in SQ and that will really help to set you apart from the field. your biggest challenge in any truck is noise. trucks of your vintage were just that....trucks. they were not built for comfort so noise suppression in them was not a concern.
my opinion, start with sound deadening the vehicle. while you investigate your choices for components you can take your vehicle apart panel by panel, and apply your deadener. this will allow you to still drive the vehicle and be able have a life while you do this step. once you start the system the truck is going to be in pieces for weeks. pay really close attention to the things some forget. your floor and roof. because the roofs in trucks are what they are i would suggest doubling up. there are floor kits from dynamat available out there. if you need a hand getting ahold of one let me know the rep is a friend.
as far as choosing components, thats a whole new thread that gets rehashed here alot. for me:
Alpine head
Morel 6.5" components
Concept CEX-10 x 2
Cadence amps
Audio Control EQ
Myron & Davis Screen (hands down the best)
X-Box
in your neighborhood i would talk to DWVW (Derek). he knows what he is talking about and loves this **** much as any of us.
that should get you started.you should really get your system down on paper. it helps with visualising the end result. i usually draw pictures of the systems i build for days and weeks before the actual install. it also helps so that your not running to revy every 20 minutes for supplies cause you have the basic idea.
do us a favor and take lots of pictures so we can see how it is going along. keep posting here cause everyone on this board will help you along.
[img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
my opinion, start with sound deadening the vehicle. while you investigate your choices for components you can take your vehicle apart panel by panel, and apply your deadener. this will allow you to still drive the vehicle and be able have a life while you do this step. once you start the system the truck is going to be in pieces for weeks. pay really close attention to the things some forget. your floor and roof. because the roofs in trucks are what they are i would suggest doubling up. there are floor kits from dynamat available out there. if you need a hand getting ahold of one let me know the rep is a friend.
as far as choosing components, thats a whole new thread that gets rehashed here alot. for me:
Alpine head
Morel 6.5" components
Concept CEX-10 x 2
Cadence amps
Audio Control EQ
Myron & Davis Screen (hands down the best)
X-Box
in your neighborhood i would talk to DWVW (Derek). he knows what he is talking about and loves this **** much as any of us.
that should get you started.you should really get your system down on paper. it helps with visualising the end result. i usually draw pictures of the systems i build for days and weeks before the actual install. it also helps so that your not running to revy every 20 minutes for supplies cause you have the basic idea.
do us a favor and take lots of pictures so we can see how it is going along. keep posting here cause everyone on this board will help you along.
[img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
raver is correct... trucks are hard to work with... when m brother got his, he gave up car audio cause he wouldn't have enough time and money to spnd on overcoming the short-falls of a tuck. however, with carefull planning, you can still attain an SQ system in a truck that will nip at the heels of iasca champions! my sugestion is to look for previous iasca/usac champions with trucks... there were a few in the past..no sure about now... learn from their ideas and ingenuity.... it'll only make your job easier. go to shows and ask to listen to the vehicles (not just trucks) and learn from their set-ups...and don't be afraid to ask questions!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Also that truck is not as bad as some are making out, it isn't a real wide truck like a chevy or dodge full size, so it won't be bad, also since you are willing to do a cut through you solved the space issues that plague most standard cab mini trucks. One of the best imaging vehicles I have heard was James Chevrette's (Westec) S-10, and his truck was a standard cab.
They can be done but it will take alot of work (any vehicle will if you plan to compete). But I also think you should start with sound deadening, give Wade at B-Quiet a ring and get enough deadener to do a couple layers over every panel, and follow it up with some L-Comp on the floor and you will be way ahead of the game.
They can be done but it will take alot of work (any vehicle will if you plan to compete). But I also think you should start with sound deadening, give Wade at B-Quiet a ring and get enough deadener to do a couple layers over every panel, and follow it up with some L-Comp on the floor and you will be way ahead of the game.
Thread Starter
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 604
That is sweet that there is sooo many people out there that are willing to help me along on this trip. I have never heard a SQ setup so i am not really sure on what to expect and what to do to get results. I am really not planning on competing. Well i want to but the $$$ is way to much. Although sometime in the future i would LOVE to. I want to start from the bottom before i work my way up to the competition level.
First off i am going to start with deadning. I am going to do the floor, doors, roof, and back wall. What are some good products that work well and don't break the bank.
Also i know there is all advantages to doing the firewall but are the advantages worth the headache of all that work. That will be quite a daunting task!! If it will make dramatic difference then i will to what it takes!
I am wishfully looking at a bugget of around $4000 for gear and materials
I know that is small but i know when in planning for a system the FIRST thing that is done is put a cap on spending! Because you and i know it can get WAAAYYYY to carried away!
As for gear this is what i have right now:
Pioneer DEH-P720
Infinity Refrence 5 1/4 comps
Pheonix Gold PLD1 Line driver
JBL 180.2 (comps)
JBL 1200.1 (subs)
4 RWC 304 MB Quart 12's
Any of this gear worth keeping? Or should i just scrap it all and start from scratch.
For a HU i want to go with alpine. I was thinking the 7995. Sexy sexy unit!! Or maybe a Pioneer P1R. The P9 combo setup has dropped in price and it would be nice to pick up. They can be found used around the net for about 800-900 USD. A little pricey but so is the 7995.
For amps i want to go with ARC audio. They are some of the most sexy amps out there. Maybe a CXL 1500D for the lowend and maybe a CXLR 4150 for the mids and highs. Any other suggestions in this area?!?!? Amps are a very touchy subject for some people. So i would like lots of input on this area. I will leave the speaks and proccesors for another day.
Thanks for all the help guys and i hope this will be fun!!
First off i am going to start with deadning. I am going to do the floor, doors, roof, and back wall. What are some good products that work well and don't break the bank.
Also i know there is all advantages to doing the firewall but are the advantages worth the headache of all that work. That will be quite a daunting task!! If it will make dramatic difference then i will to what it takes!
I am wishfully looking at a bugget of around $4000 for gear and materials
I know that is small but i know when in planning for a system the FIRST thing that is done is put a cap on spending! Because you and i know it can get WAAAYYYY to carried away!As for gear this is what i have right now:
Pioneer DEH-P720
Infinity Refrence 5 1/4 comps
Pheonix Gold PLD1 Line driver
JBL 180.2 (comps)
JBL 1200.1 (subs)
4 RWC 304 MB Quart 12's
Any of this gear worth keeping? Or should i just scrap it all and start from scratch.
For a HU i want to go with alpine. I was thinking the 7995. Sexy sexy unit!! Or maybe a Pioneer P1R. The P9 combo setup has dropped in price and it would be nice to pick up. They can be found used around the net for about 800-900 USD. A little pricey but so is the 7995.
For amps i want to go with ARC audio. They are some of the most sexy amps out there. Maybe a CXL 1500D for the lowend and maybe a CXLR 4150 for the mids and highs. Any other suggestions in this area?!?!? Amps are a very touchy subject for some people. So i would like lots of input on this area. I will leave the speaks and proccesors for another day.
Thanks for all the help guys and i hope this will be fun!!
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 276
Well i don't know how unique SQ in a d50 is 
(i have one too). In a couple weeks i should have some DIY comps in ported kickpanels... and i managed to pick up a shiva too. Good thing i have the extended cab [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] .
(i have one too). In a couple weeks i should have some DIY comps in ported kickpanels... and i managed to pick up a shiva too. Good thing i have the extended cab [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] .
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well, I think you have some decent equipment to work with. To be honest I don't think you need to upgrade much. Here are my thoughts.
Pioneer DEH-P720- I am not 100% familiar with this deck, but I have seen people run much less with great results.
Infinity Refrence 5 1/4 comps- If I am not mistaken, these would be very similar to the comp's I used in my first year of competing IASCA. They are nice, but IMO can't really handle a whack of power. But as long as you set them up right, the would be good to start with. When you get things set up a little more, I would look into a nicer set of comps. I absolutly LOVE my Focals. No regrets on spending the cash on them.
Pheonix Gold PLD1 Line driver- Keep ot. Its a good addition to any system.
JBL 180.2 (comps)
JBL 1200.1 (subs)- I would keep both these amps. They are very effecient and JBL is pretty decent quality. IMO if your just getting started into SQ, you won't be able to tell much difference between amps anyway. These will do fine for the time being. Once you get things set up, you can always dump them and pick up somthing else.
4 RWC 304 MB Quart 12's- If it were me, I would dump 2 12's and run that 1200w to just the other two. You don't need alot of bottom end in a sq system anyway. And when you want to turn the gain up and **** on it, you will still get some decent boom.
My only other suggestions would be take the money from the 2 12's and buy yourself a decent eq. It will go much farther in the sq workd than 2 extra subs. But if you have the 4k budget, maybe look into picking up an new comp set. MB Quart, Dynaudio, Focal, Image Dynamics...the list goes on and on. But after that, just focus the rest of your time and money into the install. That will be the biggest factor if you will truley like sq or not. If its done right, it will sound like a million bux, even if its only done for a fraction of the cost. ANyway, hope this helps a bit.
Oh ya...go see Dereck (DWVW), he knows a thing or two about sq.
Pioneer DEH-P720- I am not 100% familiar with this deck, but I have seen people run much less with great results.
Infinity Refrence 5 1/4 comps- If I am not mistaken, these would be very similar to the comp's I used in my first year of competing IASCA. They are nice, but IMO can't really handle a whack of power. But as long as you set them up right, the would be good to start with. When you get things set up a little more, I would look into a nicer set of comps. I absolutly LOVE my Focals. No regrets on spending the cash on them.
Pheonix Gold PLD1 Line driver- Keep ot. Its a good addition to any system.
JBL 180.2 (comps)
JBL 1200.1 (subs)- I would keep both these amps. They are very effecient and JBL is pretty decent quality. IMO if your just getting started into SQ, you won't be able to tell much difference between amps anyway. These will do fine for the time being. Once you get things set up, you can always dump them and pick up somthing else.
4 RWC 304 MB Quart 12's- If it were me, I would dump 2 12's and run that 1200w to just the other two. You don't need alot of bottom end in a sq system anyway. And when you want to turn the gain up and **** on it, you will still get some decent boom.
My only other suggestions would be take the money from the 2 12's and buy yourself a decent eq. It will go much farther in the sq workd than 2 extra subs. But if you have the 4k budget, maybe look into picking up an new comp set. MB Quart, Dynaudio, Focal, Image Dynamics...the list goes on and on. But after that, just focus the rest of your time and money into the install. That will be the biggest factor if you will truley like sq or not. If its done right, it will sound like a million bux, even if its only done for a fraction of the cost. ANyway, hope this helps a bit.
Oh ya...go see Dereck (DWVW), he knows a thing or two about sq.
Thread Starter
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 604
Thanks Fat Wacker for the info!! I KNOW i am going to ditch the comps. The highs are nice but the midrange/midbass is SEVEARLY lacking!! As for the amps i would love to keep them! They match nice and have about the power i need. They are however UGLY!! I have seen the mmats amp that someone on this board polished and it looked WICKED! I think i might do that as well. I want to get an eq for sure. I was thinking something that was 1/3 octave from Pheonix Gold or PPI. I hear those are both good peices. Also i was thinking of doing some active crossovers so i will have more control. The HU i have has 125hz,80hz and 50hz HPF and LPF.
As for the subs they sound nice but the 4 isn't as loud as i want. NO ALL THE TIME but i want some eardrumb crushing levels of something more. They won't handle 600W RMS a peice because i can bottom them out with approx 325w RMS each right now. Idealy i want 2 12" woofers with long linear xmax. Some type of super woofer like the W7, Brahma, eD A series, RE XXX, ID Max ect. Something that will sound AWSOME and still make 140db!!
As for the subs they sound nice but the 4 isn't as loud as i want. NO ALL THE TIME but i want some eardrumb crushing levels of something more. They won't handle 600W RMS a peice because i can bottom them out with approx 325w RMS each right now. Idealy i want 2 12" woofers with long linear xmax. Some type of super woofer like the W7, Brahma, eD A series, RE XXX, ID Max ect. Something that will sound AWSOME and still make 140db!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think almost any 1/3 octave eq will benifit you well. I have had experience with the PPI deq 230, Audio Control EQT's, EQL (not 1/3 but does a good job) and I know the Orion dq 230 is good as well. I know alot of people have been giving the DQX from Audio Control a good review and it gives you everything, eq and crossover. This might be a good peice to look at.
But with the subs, any pair of decent 12"s with 600w/ea to them should hit 140db easy, but is that what your looking for in an sq system? There have been alot of people in the past that have done it and all it takes is a good sub box and install. You don't want to make the box soo big that it looses all the subs responce for actuall music and not just boom boom. But there have been alot of successfull sq guys that can hit decent numbers in SPL. And trust me, if you can install 2 12"s in the correct box, you should be able to hit 140 no problem and still tune it for sq. It might take some playing with different boxes and adjusting with eq's and gains between the two, but you can do it.
But with the subs, any pair of decent 12"s with 600w/ea to them should hit 140db easy, but is that what your looking for in an sq system? There have been alot of people in the past that have done it and all it takes is a good sub box and install. You don't want to make the box soo big that it looses all the subs responce for actuall music and not just boom boom. But there have been alot of successfull sq guys that can hit decent numbers in SPL. And trust me, if you can install 2 12"s in the correct box, you should be able to hit 140 no problem and still tune it for sq. It might take some playing with different boxes and adjusting with eq's and gains between the two, but you can do it.
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 342
whacker is right about the bass. one of your main keys in any SQ system is flat RTA response. with your line driver and other components you will hopefully be able to set up the system so that your bass, at its lowest setting will give you that response, and then you can crank to your hearts content. in a perfect world.
this is where trial and error and
crazy hours of tuning and tweeking come in. i built an SQ system in a dodge magnum around 4 AVI 8". took me a month of BS to get that system setup and i almost gave up and went back to SPL. those 4 8's krushed almost everything back then. long story short..........the payoff! the smile on my face the day i new i had it and the look on the faces of my customers when i took them out to my 79 magnum and let them listen to the best system they had ever heard. to quote MC.......priceless!
for your amps if you don't like the look, there are alternatives. dipping, or powder coating would be a lot cheaper then replacement. that would free up a whole bunch o' green for you to play with better subs, comps, and an EQ. my .02. don't forget to take pictures. i was up til midnite last night trying to find pictures of the magnum for you....stupid x gf....stupid.....stupid....want my stuff. anyway the point is even for some of us who have been this forever it's nice to see a fresh approach on anything. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
[ August 20, 2003, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: t raver1 smith ]
this is where trial and error and
crazy hours of tuning and tweeking come in. i built an SQ system in a dodge magnum around 4 AVI 8". took me a month of BS to get that system setup and i almost gave up and went back to SPL. those 4 8's krushed almost everything back then. long story short..........the payoff! the smile on my face the day i new i had it and the look on the faces of my customers when i took them out to my 79 magnum and let them listen to the best system they had ever heard. to quote MC.......priceless!for your amps if you don't like the look, there are alternatives. dipping, or powder coating would be a lot cheaper then replacement. that would free up a whole bunch o' green for you to play with better subs, comps, and an EQ. my .02. don't forget to take pictures. i was up til midnite last night trying to find pictures of the magnum for you....stupid x gf....stupid.....stupid....want my stuff. anyway the point is even for some of us who have been this forever it's nice to see a fresh approach on anything. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
[ August 20, 2003, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: t raver1 smith ]
