how to tune an eq without rta?
Guest
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were not the european judges heavily critisized for inconsistant sq judgeing, compared to the majority of other judges at the iasca finals last year(2004), if i have misunderstood, please correct me, judgeing by your statements that if it sounds good to you it must sound good to all, what i heard rings true. you cant tell someone what sounds good, you may like it, another may not, does that make them wrong, i dont think so
0 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 19
the standard of judging from country to country
varies a massive amount the uk where heavily criticised about lots of things but like all iasca judges they judge to guidelines and rules so apart from the tonality section you judge to a book thats it
one of the things the uk was criticised for was the scoring for subbass low frequency extention scoring
we heard a lot of comments from guys saying "well normally i score an 18 on that "
yet when we judged it they scored a 12
obviously questions were asked and arguments ensued then when i took a couple of the disgruntled competitors inside there own cars and told them
exactly what we were listening for and then asked them to jump into another car which had been set up correctly they immeditedly heard the differnace and most said they had been setting up the subbass on a differant portion of the track
so is that the judges fault ?
its very easy to criticise judges when you havent set your car up properly in the first place i remember one particular person from canada which did exactlt this
the uk judges also give a lot of feedback to the competitors which we noticed wasnt happening from other judges
when we judge in the uk we spend ten to fifteen minutes with the competitor afterwards explaining what we heard in the car so as they can try and improve the next time they compete
how else are you supposed to improve ??
so as for the uk judges you may not like them because there not what your used to but as for ability i would say there up there with the best of the bunch
varies a massive amount the uk where heavily criticised about lots of things but like all iasca judges they judge to guidelines and rules so apart from the tonality section you judge to a book thats it
one of the things the uk was criticised for was the scoring for subbass low frequency extention scoring
we heard a lot of comments from guys saying "well normally i score an 18 on that "
yet when we judged it they scored a 12
obviously questions were asked and arguments ensued then when i took a couple of the disgruntled competitors inside there own cars and told them
exactly what we were listening for and then asked them to jump into another car which had been set up correctly they immeditedly heard the differnace and most said they had been setting up the subbass on a differant portion of the track
so is that the judges fault ?
its very easy to criticise judges when you havent set your car up properly in the first place i remember one particular person from canada which did exactlt this
the uk judges also give a lot of feedback to the competitors which we noticed wasnt happening from other judges
when we judge in the uk we spend ten to fifteen minutes with the competitor afterwards explaining what we heard in the car so as they can try and improve the next time they compete
how else are you supposed to improve ??
so as for the uk judges you may not like them because there not what your used to but as for ability i would say there up there with the best of the bunch
Car audio is art, which places it in the subjective realm. I suppose you could measure spl, freq. response etc...but the actual sound quality is impossible to quantify.There will always be critics, but personal taste is paramount. That's why if it sounds good to you, that's all that mattters...just don't compete or expect to do well if you tune to your liking.
Guest
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as well just because someone knows what good sound is, doesnt know how to tune a car
you mentioned that competitors were not talking to the other american judges at the finals, perhaps its because they didnt have to. if a guy gets 18's for sub bass all year from 10 different judges and at finals some other judge gives him 12, the inconsistency would seem to be with the induvidual judge, not the car
you mentioned that competitors were not talking to the other american judges at the finals, perhaps its because they didnt have to. if a guy gets 18's for sub bass all year from 10 different judges and at finals some other judge gives him 12, the inconsistency would seem to be with the induvidual judge, not the car
0 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 19
i agree with youas far as just because somone knows what good sound is doesnt quantify him as a good tuner
i know this from personal experiance that my hearing is better than my tuning ability
which is why when tuning my car i allways try and have two sets of ears not one
as for the judging comments perhaps you should be asking why somone has got 18,s all year when
by there own admitance they havent set there car up to the correct part of the track
whichever way neither is wrong isqc was designed to see what the differances where between judging charecteristics from differant countries
i posted on a uk forum some time ago what exactly it was that the uk judges where looking for on the iasca disc
immediatedly i got some negative responses from some well known american competitors turns out they werent listening to the right part of the track or reading the inner sleeve of the disc either so what the uk guys were judging on was actually correct
ill post the link if anyone is interested in knowing what the uk guys use for referance
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=78605
i know this from personal experiance that my hearing is better than my tuning ability
which is why when tuning my car i allways try and have two sets of ears not one
as for the judging comments perhaps you should be asking why somone has got 18,s all year when
by there own admitance they havent set there car up to the correct part of the track
whichever way neither is wrong isqc was designed to see what the differances where between judging charecteristics from differant countries
i posted on a uk forum some time ago what exactly it was that the uk judges where looking for on the iasca disc
immediatedly i got some negative responses from some well known american competitors turns out they werent listening to the right part of the track or reading the inner sleeve of the disc either so what the uk guys were judging on was actually correct
ill post the link if anyone is interested in knowing what the uk guys use for referance
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=78605
The whole entire SQ-judging process, being subjective, means that it is virtually impossible to find the 'right' sound. Who says what 'correct' sound is? It can only be a general consensus of who? Experts? Experts at what? Listening? If you get a pool of judges who have been trained to listen for the same things, then they all go out to different competitions and are listening for those things. How are you to know what they listen for if you aren't trained the same way? So it really comes down to creating a car to hopefully create 'a' sound (not necessarily the 'right' sound) that is in tune with what that particular judge is looking for or trained to hear.
Variance in judges backgrounds on sound training I think can be helpful. Might make for some variance in scoring but if you know the judges all have different experiences in sound and audio and your car is getting scored consistent, I'd say you are doing good. If you get a pool of judges who tend to all follow the same opinion of one guy due to his reputation or because he's an opinionated loudmouth, then everyone else will tend to follow that same path of thinking. The margin for error is just massive.
Variance in judges backgrounds on sound training I think can be helpful. Might make for some variance in scoring but if you know the judges all have different experiences in sound and audio and your car is getting scored consistent, I'd say you are doing good. If you get a pool of judges who tend to all follow the same opinion of one guy due to his reputation or because he's an opinionated loudmouth, then everyone else will tend to follow that same path of thinking. The margin for error is just massive.
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tuning car audio is very challenging, especiall if you are doing lots of cars, different speakers, locations and so on make having a good reference even more crirtical. my question would be for the people that have replied to this is, what is your reference, bith in system and material
Guest
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when its fully functional i use my f#1 board at the store, or i go to our home audio store in kelowna and use a denon cd player, my monster m10 speaker cable, some cardas rca cables that ive had for years and some paradigm speakers, cant remember the model off the top of my head. i also have a set of avi point source speakers that i have build some towers for that i really like but they are at home and most of my listening is done here or at our other store. i also use my senheiser headphones, more for tonality, what do you use
as for material i use
cowboy junkies-trinity sessions
the usac disc
harry james and his big band(a few cd's)
24/7 spies
paul brown-up front
those are the basics but i use some others as well, but more just because i like them rather than their quality
as for material i use
cowboy junkies-trinity sessions
the usac disc
harry james and his big band(a few cd's)
24/7 spies
paul brown-up front
those are the basics but i use some others as well, but more just because i like them rather than their quality
