Kickpanel angles and placement
11-14-2005, 08:04 AM
#2
I know you have head of the trial and error method before!LOL. I guess that's how I do mine. I make my slightly oversized MDF rings and put three long bolts in them. The bolts are driven into the cars metal and then I wrap the ring and covering area with thick vinyl to seal it. I put in the woofers and start to listen. All I need to do to adjust the angles is tighten or loosen the screws. It works pretty well.
When I do this, I make sure I raise the crossover settings in my mid (the vinyl does seal the cabinet but it still isnt rigid) to around 200Hz. I start with the mids pointing directly at each other and go from there. When I'm happy with the results I just make to pod around what I've already done.
When I do this, I make sure I raise the crossover settings in my mid (the vinyl does seal the cabinet but it still isnt rigid) to around 200Hz. I start with the mids pointing directly at each other and go from there. When I'm happy with the results I just make to pod around what I've already done.
11-14-2005, 09:58 AM
#3
Goalie Man
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,412
trial and error. the final set that i used for Finals were generation 4. all the sets sounded fine but after serious listening for a couple of weeks the judges and myself could start to pick out small nuances. these problems would be adressed and taken care of in the next set. ect ect. another big hurdel was getting them to image properly, give me a wide soundstage AND be comfortable when driving, my first couple were to big!! lots of midbass but to close to the clutch. once i got the stageing and imaging right and size right i gutted the car! go figure.
11-14-2005, 11:01 AM
#4
I’ve tried a few different ways, each with their own pros and cons. All of my kick panels thus far have used a 4” mid and tweeter mounted on a shared baffle so that they are aimed on the same plane.
I’ve used a mini-maglite and then later a laser pointer ($10) to quickly set a listening position based not really on testing how it sounds but more where the axis of the drivers are pointing at. This is obviously the quicker way of setting up the angles. This was basically done by just holding the baffle in my hand and seeing where the light ended up and aiming it where I wanted it. I used to then struggle with trying to get short pieces of ½” square dowel MDF in between the baffle plate and the kick panel to set the baffle solidly. Usually resulted in a mess of hot glue and burnt fingers.
Now I take two pieces of plumbers strap that I bend in a U shape. Screw one end to the factory kick, and end to the baffle plate. The relative stiffness of the metal strapping will allow the baffle plate to hang there but it’s relative flexibility will allow it to bend as well. It works good. After getting it into a good position, I then resort back to gluing in the pieces of ½” dowel but it’s a LOT easier having something like the strapping hold it in place while this is done.
I tried the method of using towels to position the baffle plate but this can be very frustrating to keep the baffle plate in the position you like (after doing some listening) and trying to glue support sticks in. How do you do that? Keep the towels there? Too bulky. Hold the plate in place while you try to move the towels out and then try with your other hand to get the support sticks in place and also hot glue it? Well I don’t have 3 or more hands so that didn’t work well.
I also tried to devise a pivot of sorts using two small 90 degree angle brackets bolted together but not so tight that I couldn’t pivot one bracket from the other. Each bracket was bolted to the baffle and to the kick panel. Didn’t work well either. The weight of the drivers in the baffle overcame the friction of the bolt and nut holding the brackets together.
Also, I like to build the kick panel pod right onto the factory plastic kick panel for a more integrated look.
I’ve used a mini-maglite and then later a laser pointer ($10) to quickly set a listening position based not really on testing how it sounds but more where the axis of the drivers are pointing at. This is obviously the quicker way of setting up the angles. This was basically done by just holding the baffle in my hand and seeing where the light ended up and aiming it where I wanted it. I used to then struggle with trying to get short pieces of ½” square dowel MDF in between the baffle plate and the kick panel to set the baffle solidly. Usually resulted in a mess of hot glue and burnt fingers.
Now I take two pieces of plumbers strap that I bend in a U shape. Screw one end to the factory kick, and end to the baffle plate. The relative stiffness of the metal strapping will allow the baffle plate to hang there but it’s relative flexibility will allow it to bend as well. It works good. After getting it into a good position, I then resort back to gluing in the pieces of ½” dowel but it’s a LOT easier having something like the strapping hold it in place while this is done.
I tried the method of using towels to position the baffle plate but this can be very frustrating to keep the baffle plate in the position you like (after doing some listening) and trying to glue support sticks in. How do you do that? Keep the towels there? Too bulky. Hold the plate in place while you try to move the towels out and then try with your other hand to get the support sticks in place and also hot glue it? Well I don’t have 3 or more hands so that didn’t work well.
I also tried to devise a pivot of sorts using two small 90 degree angle brackets bolted together but not so tight that I couldn’t pivot one bracket from the other. Each bracket was bolted to the baffle and to the kick panel. Didn’t work well either. The weight of the drivers in the baffle overcame the friction of the bolt and nut holding the brackets together.
Also, I like to build the kick panel pod right onto the factory plastic kick panel for a more integrated look.
11-15-2005, 06:44 AM
#9
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Ok, I'll add in something as I've built a lot of these and talked to a lot of people about them. There's a few critical things I have found.
1. Build a good base that's fastened to the car. The kick must then fit up and be attached to this base the same way EVERY time or else all that listening and tweaking goes to shyate. A key is usually a good way to ensure everything goes back in exactly the same way.
2. The method of fastening the kick to this base must be accessible so once you've built the kick pod, you can still fasten it to the car. It's sounds simple and stupid........... but [img]tongue.gif[/img]
3. The mounting ring should be REALLY solid before glassing or whatever. You don't want it to move at all when finishing the pod.
I like vented kickpanels that are vented outside or into the hollow cavity or into the backside of the carpet. Always better to have more volume to start then not enuf.
Angling.......... all about listening and knowing what you're listening to. Having a high end home two channel as a reference is always a good idea to educate yourself about what you're listening to. In-car, starting point strongly depends on the type of car and it's characteristics......... small footwell, big foot well, large dash overhang, deep dash, leather, plactic, etc, etc.
As a side note, consider machining metal or aluminum rings for the mounting ring. As a mounting surface, both are incredibly strong and thinner then using wood as a medium. The DLS competition guys actually use two machined mounting rings, one to install the driver on and then an upper ring machined to sandwich the driver down and keep it in place. Overkill???? Maybe. But the driver is 100% secure. They use this on all drivers, including tweeters !!
Ok, lastly, I think getting the mid and tweet up on the dash (custom dash at some level) is where it's at and midbass in the kicks as far away from you as possible. An up front sub is also very very helpful. If I was building an all out SQ car, I'd have no drivers behind me at all.
Anyways, just my $0.03
1. Build a good base that's fastened to the car. The kick must then fit up and be attached to this base the same way EVERY time or else all that listening and tweaking goes to shyate. A key is usually a good way to ensure everything goes back in exactly the same way.
2. The method of fastening the kick to this base must be accessible so once you've built the kick pod, you can still fasten it to the car. It's sounds simple and stupid........... but [img]tongue.gif[/img]
3. The mounting ring should be REALLY solid before glassing or whatever. You don't want it to move at all when finishing the pod.
I like vented kickpanels that are vented outside or into the hollow cavity or into the backside of the carpet. Always better to have more volume to start then not enuf.
Angling.......... all about listening and knowing what you're listening to. Having a high end home two channel as a reference is always a good idea to educate yourself about what you're listening to. In-car, starting point strongly depends on the type of car and it's characteristics......... small footwell, big foot well, large dash overhang, deep dash, leather, plactic, etc, etc.
As a side note, consider machining metal or aluminum rings for the mounting ring. As a mounting surface, both are incredibly strong and thinner then using wood as a medium. The DLS competition guys actually use two machined mounting rings, one to install the driver on and then an upper ring machined to sandwich the driver down and keep it in place. Overkill???? Maybe. But the driver is 100% secure. They use this on all drivers, including tweeters !!
Ok, lastly, I think getting the mid and tweet up on the dash (custom dash at some level) is where it's at and midbass in the kicks as far away from you as possible. An up front sub is also very very helpful. If I was building an all out SQ car, I'd have no drivers behind me at all.
Anyways, just my $0.03
11-15-2005, 09:34 AM
#10
James, why don't YOU tell us how you did yours! I would think a 2-time USAC champion is doing something right. And refresh me: how is your front stage installed?
Oh, and fax me my score sheets from the Kelowna show if you can
Oh, and fax me my score sheets from the Kelowna show if you can
