Research is almost done subwoofer/enclosure suggestions
impulse response is not the same as sound quality. When you're listening to a heavier speaker, it doesn't respond as fast, because the cone can't change directions as fast. The power has to overcome the moving mass of the cone to be able to change the direction that the cone is moving.
Why don't speaker manufacturers make cones out of steel, so they were rigid enough to not flex at any excursion level? because the moving mass would be so high as to eliminate sound quality.
The only way to reduce the effect of a heavy cone/coil assembly is to make the suspension stiffer, which means that the suspension is controlling the movement of the cone, not the signal from the amplifier. And when you have a very stiff suspension, you need more power to move the coil, look at a kicker soloX, they take obscene amounts of power just to make any sound, because they're so darn stiff. but they sound great at 2000 RMS, and acchieve a decent listening level with about that much power.
In short, mass has everything to do with the signal coming out of the speaker. with too much mass, the woofer cone can keep traveling in a straight line while the signal is telling it to reverse direction, but there simply isn't enough signal to overcome the moving mass of the cone.
Besides that, if you'd read to the end of that entire thread, you'd find that Dan Wiggins agreed that if you had 2 identical drivers, but added mass to the cone of one, you would lose trasient response.
[ January 18, 2005, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Sassmaster ]
Why don't speaker manufacturers make cones out of steel, so they were rigid enough to not flex at any excursion level? because the moving mass would be so high as to eliminate sound quality.
The only way to reduce the effect of a heavy cone/coil assembly is to make the suspension stiffer, which means that the suspension is controlling the movement of the cone, not the signal from the amplifier. And when you have a very stiff suspension, you need more power to move the coil, look at a kicker soloX, they take obscene amounts of power just to make any sound, because they're so darn stiff. but they sound great at 2000 RMS, and acchieve a decent listening level with about that much power.
In short, mass has everything to do with the signal coming out of the speaker. with too much mass, the woofer cone can keep traveling in a straight line while the signal is telling it to reverse direction, but there simply isn't enough signal to overcome the moving mass of the cone.
Besides that, if you'd read to the end of that entire thread, you'd find that Dan Wiggins agreed that if you had 2 identical drivers, but added mass to the cone of one, you would lose trasient response.
[ January 18, 2005, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Sassmaster ]
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 146
It's a misunderstanding on the definition of 'transient response'. My bad.
As was shown in the thread, the difference between considering it being only the initial rise time, and the complete "rise, overshoot, ringing and damping" time.
I still believe the box to quite a large factor in the 'complete transient time' the sub and should not be left out of the equation.
With respect to your first point, the impulse response shows exactly how fast the speaker can respond to a changing signal. From being at-rest, to having an impulse sent through it.
It's the overshoot, ringing and damping part of the transient response that would be affected by the Mms, Cms, Bl, box, etc...
[ January 18, 2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: hobbes26 ]
As was shown in the thread, the difference between considering it being only the initial rise time, and the complete "rise, overshoot, ringing and damping" time.
I still believe the box to quite a large factor in the 'complete transient time' the sub and should not be left out of the equation.
With respect to your first point, the impulse response shows exactly how fast the speaker can respond to a changing signal. From being at-rest, to having an impulse sent through it.
It's the overshoot, ringing and damping part of the transient response that would be affected by the Mms, Cms, Bl, box, etc...
[ January 18, 2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: hobbes26 ]
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 146
That's the thing. If it shows up in the impulse response, then it'll for sure show up when the cone is changing from moving forwards to backwards as well - and it'll be a larger difference too. There's still the change in inertia from at-rest to moving.
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 206
The ID Max is a nice driver. I was at ID in Aug and talked with Matt in depth about that driver, and took a good look at all the components inside the driver, all top notch stuff (ie no corners cut). It's a well enginered driver, and looks pretty bad a$$ also. The only draw back is that it is deep (size wise)
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 128
Originally posted by Impala Builder:
The ID Max is a nice driver. I was at ID in Aug and talked with Matt in depth about that driver, and took a good look at all the components inside the driver, all top notch stuff (ie no corners cut). It's a well enginered driver, and looks pretty bad a$$ also. The only draw back is that it is deep (size wise)
The ID Max is a nice driver. I was at ID in Aug and talked with Matt in depth about that driver, and took a good look at all the components inside the driver, all top notch stuff (ie no corners cut). It's a well enginered driver, and looks pretty bad a$$ also. The only draw back is that it is deep (size wise)
