So....I've come to the conclusion that....
09-21-2004, 03:32 PM
#1
.....My van sounds like *** without a midbass driver.
I had a good listen today(2-3 hours) using different speaker placements. The drivers I'm using right now are Phase Linear 5.25's and Kicker Resolution tweets.
The set can image like nothing I've ever heard before in a vehicle that wide. The kicks are much closer than in a fair sized car so PL's are very hard to match, but somehow they imaged excellent. However....tonally...something's missing....the sound is very hollow...the set is being run passive because I can't be bothered to run active right now. The passive is a POS...simply put, that's the best desciption...they suck...my tweets play 7K and up, my midranges play 250 to 7K and my sub plays 50 and down.
I've come to another conclusion also....van's are not the greatest SQ vehicles....imagine that
I had a good listen today(2-3 hours) using different speaker placements. The drivers I'm using right now are Phase Linear 5.25's and Kicker Resolution tweets.
The set can image like nothing I've ever heard before in a vehicle that wide. The kicks are much closer than in a fair sized car so PL's are very hard to match, but somehow they imaged excellent. However....tonally...something's missing....the sound is very hollow...the set is being run passive because I can't be bothered to run active right now. The passive is a POS...simply put, that's the best desciption...they suck...my tweets play 7K and up, my midranges play 250 to 7K and my sub plays 50 and down.
I've come to another conclusion also....van's are not the greatest SQ vehicles....imagine that
09-21-2004, 03:46 PM
#2
So let me get this straight, you purposely set up a huge gap between 50 and 250, yet you say the sound is hollow and lacking midbass? Hm...yeah, I'd have to agree there. Perhaps put a speaker in there playing...I dunno.....50 to 250 and you might see some results 
09-21-2004, 03:51 PM
#4
I don't have room for a midbass.
That and my subamp gets too hot when I change the x-over to a higher frequency like 250.
What I'd like to know, however, is this...if I built a sealed or ported enclosure for my midranges..it should fill in some of that gap and hopefully help to "hide" my sub....but how much lower could I crossover my midranges?
Right now my sub is tight, controlled and real loud for being only 1 12 Kicker CVR, it also sounds like I'm towing it in a trailer behind me...I want my bass up front.
That and my subamp gets too hot when I change the x-over to a higher frequency like 250.
What I'd like to know, however, is this...if I built a sealed or ported enclosure for my midranges..it should fill in some of that gap and hopefully help to "hide" my sub....but how much lower could I crossover my midranges?
Right now my sub is tight, controlled and real loud for being only 1 12 Kicker CVR, it also sounds like I'm towing it in a trailer behind me...I want my bass up front.
09-21-2004, 03:53 PM
#5
Originally posted by PEI330Ci:
you contradict yourself a lot...kind of confusing
you contradict yourself a lot...kind of confusing
Also, is there a decent midbass driver like 5" or so that works well in a Kickpanel set up?
I have no room in my doors for any kind of speaker so Kicks are my only option...they also happen to be pretty small kicks hence the 5" or smaller.
edit: the Focal 5WS is too deep for my kicks.
[ September 21, 2004, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Brandon ]
09-21-2004, 04:19 PM
#6
I'm not familiar with the 5's you are using, but most 5's that come in component sets or what not are usually good to play down to 80 or so. Got any room under the seat? Make a wedge-shaped box with the baffle angled forward and up for a midbass driver. I know under our 2000 Grand Caravan seats, there is quite a bit of room for about a 0.4-0.5 cu. ft. box.
09-21-2004, 04:48 PM
#7
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
^ There is a fair amount of stereo info (and some directional cues too) at the missing freq. I have mismatched midbass drivers in a car with some success. The midbass on your side should be the larger of the two (you will get the warmth region and the passenger will get a lean presentation).
Just putting the existing drivers in large enclosure will help fill in the missing freq range... I am thinking sealed box until you get a hand on how the puppies perform.
The imaging is so good right now because by eliminating the warmth region you are forced to focus on the mid range. This is a neat trick, a lean system seems to image better (I have done this in my car just fooling around... every time a judge sits in my car it must sound drastically different from the previous time, this boys and girls is how to screw with a judges head). In fact this is a great time to optimize driver location for imaging! When you return the bass to your system the imaging will still be good but it will add enough confusion for you to notice the difference. Unfortunatly without warmth a lot of the emotion is taken out of music and leaves it sterile.
[ September 22, 2004, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: JohnVroom ]
Just putting the existing drivers in large enclosure will help fill in the missing freq range... I am thinking sealed box until you get a hand on how the puppies perform.
The imaging is so good right now because by eliminating the warmth region you are forced to focus on the mid range. This is a neat trick, a lean system seems to image better (I have done this in my car just fooling around... every time a judge sits in my car it must sound drastically different from the previous time, this boys and girls is how to screw with a judges head). In fact this is a great time to optimize driver location for imaging! When you return the bass to your system the imaging will still be good but it will add enough confusion for you to notice the difference. Unfortunatly without warmth a lot of the emotion is taken out of music and leaves it sterile.
[ September 22, 2004, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: JohnVroom ]
09-21-2004, 07:17 PM
#8
Originally posted by SUX 2BU:
I'm not familiar with the 5's you are using, but most 5's that come in component sets or what not are usually good to play down to 80 or so. Got any room under the seat? Make a wedge-shaped box with the baffle angled forward and up for a midbass driver. I know under our 2000 Grand Caravan seats, there is quite a bit of room for about a 0.4-0.5 cu. ft. box.
I'm not familiar with the 5's you are using, but most 5's that come in component sets or what not are usually good to play down to 80 or so. Got any room under the seat? Make a wedge-shaped box with the baffle angled forward and up for a midbass driver. I know under our 2000 Grand Caravan seats, there is quite a bit of room for about a 0.4-0.5 cu. ft. box.
09-21-2004, 10:32 PM
#9
From what I understand, PLD's become more important after 100-150Hz or so, so IMO I would run the 5's you have down to 125ish in the kicks and then with the midbass doing 50-125 their location isn't as critical.
You have no room in the door at all? Not even for a door pod build-out?
[ September 21, 2004, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: SUX 2BU ]
You have no room in the door at all? Not even for a door pod build-out?
[ September 21, 2004, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: SUX 2BU ]
09-22-2004, 10:14 AM
#10
I suppose I could build a pod, but there's no place in the doors for midbass....I would not really want to start chopping holes in my doors either...or the trim I should say, since there was no speakers there from the factory there is no grill or mounting hole for a midbass.
I'll try putting the Peerless 8's under the seats...If I don't like that, I may have to build pods...or go with a 3" midrange and 5" midbass in the kicks although it would be VERY tight.
I'll try putting the Peerless 8's under the seats...If I don't like that, I may have to build pods...or go with a 3" midrange and 5" midbass in the kicks although it would be VERY tight.
