System tuning and RTA
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 206
another few notes while I have the time
1: Use sub-sonic filters on Subs. No point trying to waste a ton of amp and battery power to make notes that your enclosure was not designed to do.
2: Passive Suck [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img] (can I say that any louder...lol)
They eat up power, restrict your ability to adjust crossover points. And the worst is they make you use an EQ to adjust freq ranges down/up. If you need more or less mid-bass then adjust it on the X-over with gain, not phase changing eq bands
3: Less IS more. use the least amount of drivers as possible. If I could get the results I wanted with one driver left and rigth....I would. You know how hard it is to align two speakers for best stage/imaging/ and tonality.......try that with 6 drivers up front
4: **** loads of power. Yes thats what I said. Or use VERY efficent drivers. Running an amp at full volume does nothing for SQ. You really want to be listening in the 80% or less range. Remember my other post that says clip everything at the same time. Well with small amps (low power) you may end up with an under 90dB system because gains are to low.
If you use Very efficent drivers like I did in my honda civic (2- Veritas horns, 2 Vertias 6.5'2, 2- 12's, and 140 real watts total) you'll be able to get crazy loud and have incredable dynamics. The same goes with lots of power.
This also helps keep noise away.....FARRRRR away
5: LOTS of sleep, lots of low noise becfore you tune. Also keep having a break, let those ears rest.
Trust me I could go on for hours chatting about this stuff..............
1: Use sub-sonic filters on Subs. No point trying to waste a ton of amp and battery power to make notes that your enclosure was not designed to do.
2: Passive Suck [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img] (can I say that any louder...lol)
They eat up power, restrict your ability to adjust crossover points. And the worst is they make you use an EQ to adjust freq ranges down/up. If you need more or less mid-bass then adjust it on the X-over with gain, not phase changing eq bands
3: Less IS more. use the least amount of drivers as possible. If I could get the results I wanted with one driver left and rigth....I would. You know how hard it is to align two speakers for best stage/imaging/ and tonality.......try that with 6 drivers up front
4: **** loads of power. Yes thats what I said. Or use VERY efficent drivers. Running an amp at full volume does nothing for SQ. You really want to be listening in the 80% or less range. Remember my other post that says clip everything at the same time. Well with small amps (low power) you may end up with an under 90dB system because gains are to low.
If you use Very efficent drivers like I did in my honda civic (2- Veritas horns, 2 Vertias 6.5'2, 2- 12's, and 140 real watts total) you'll be able to get crazy loud and have incredable dynamics. The same goes with lots of power.
This also helps keep noise away.....FARRRRR away
5: LOTS of sleep, lots of low noise becfore you tune. Also keep having a break, let those ears rest.
Trust me I could go on for hours chatting about this stuff..............
Hey lemonlime, have you ever competed before? Reason I ask is the more advaced classes in IASCA don't require you to RTA. I know Marc Turner doesn't have to, niether does Eldridge.
Grab yourself a USAC or IASCA rulebook, or both, and find a class that suits you and figure out whether you'll need to RTA or not, the more advanced classes don't need to run SPL either so pick yourself up a rulebook, you could end up saving yourself a lot of money.
Grab yourself a USAC or IASCA rulebook, or both, and find a class that suits you and figure out whether you'll need to RTA or not, the more advanced classes don't need to run SPL either so pick yourself up a rulebook, you could end up saving yourself a lot of money.
Thread Starter
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 756
Originally posted by slingshot2:
Hey lemonlime, have you ever competed before? Reason I ask is the more advaced classes in IASCA don't require you to RTA. I know Marc Turner doesn't have to, niether does Eldridge.
Grab yourself a USAC or IASCA rulebook, or both, and find a class that suits you and figure out whether you'll need to RTA or not, the more advanced classes don't need to run SPL either so pick yourself up a rulebook, you could end up saving yourself a lot of money.
Hey lemonlime, have you ever competed before? Reason I ask is the more advaced classes in IASCA don't require you to RTA. I know Marc Turner doesn't have to, niether does Eldridge.
Grab yourself a USAC or IASCA rulebook, or both, and find a class that suits you and figure out whether you'll need to RTA or not, the more advanced classes don't need to run SPL either so pick yourself up a rulebook, you could end up saving yourself a lot of money.
Thanks for the tip!. I need to get my hands on a rule book. Anyone know where I can find one?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Jamie-I'm curious where you stand on time alignment...I realize it should only be an absolute last measure, once you've taken everything else as far as you can, but do you use it on your cars? Reason I ask is because you mention point sources, and keeping them to a minimum (less is better), but if I recall corectly, your mids were mounted in the doors of your Civic. That must have created some problems with time arrival and such? Or did you get by without it?
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 206
Sling....
I did leave and cut all ties with IASCA in October of last year. I had a VERY major issue with some people that were running shows/holding events and general promotion of IASCA. So I said if this is where IASCA is going I'm not headed that way. I aslo voiced these to Paul at IASCA
I have spoken with Chris at IASCA in detail a few weeks ago. He has informed me thatI was not the only person with these concerns, and that the people I had issue's with are no longer doing the things of past, and that a NEW group of people are helping Paul with his focus, and I see it as being Very possitive for all involved.
I am glad to say that I will be training the IASCA SQ judges with Moe Sab in March of this year in Toronto. And I will be the Head Judge for SQ at Spring Break Nationals.
Kilo
Yes My Honda had door mounted Mids, and I really lucked out....it worked very well. The door mids actually were in a AP set up.Dave Mac knew this and almost let it out of the bag one day while judging and asked "Wheres teh pic's of your AP set up in your door.....DOH!
The doors played from 35-40 hz up to only 500hz Mor of a mid bass than mid-range.
No Time alignment in that car, but My seats were so far back that the path length of the mids to the drivers ears were a little over 4 feet. Thats what helped align those drivers. Plus I had a relly funky phase set-up on the drivers.
Drivers horn in phase, pass out of phase
Driver Mid out of phase, pass in phase
The only problem that car had was heigth. But it had awsome width,imaging, and depth
I LOVE time alignment, but it is again a bandaid for other issue's. Don't take that wrong. I have used it in every car that I have done that has ODR. Remeber that we are in a car you realy can only do so much before you HAVE to use those bandaids. The ODR is nice because it does band specific time alignment (actually delay)
The PPI peice they called a phase shifter was an analog delay. This thing caused phase shift like you wouldn't beleive. You could spin those dials and here it happen. I still have one...kind of a fun thing. But you coudl here the tonallity change and the sound stage went all over the place.
My Impala I don't think will need any alignment, at least with my testing over the years of locations and driver sizes/types. Plus teh seats go back so far that I can't hold the steering wheel (and I'm 6"3)
The SS WILL be out this year.....and some news in coming within the next few weeks about my SS
I did leave and cut all ties with IASCA in October of last year. I had a VERY major issue with some people that were running shows/holding events and general promotion of IASCA. So I said if this is where IASCA is going I'm not headed that way. I aslo voiced these to Paul at IASCA
I have spoken with Chris at IASCA in detail a few weeks ago. He has informed me thatI was not the only person with these concerns, and that the people I had issue's with are no longer doing the things of past, and that a NEW group of people are helping Paul with his focus, and I see it as being Very possitive for all involved.
I am glad to say that I will be training the IASCA SQ judges with Moe Sab in March of this year in Toronto. And I will be the Head Judge for SQ at Spring Break Nationals.
Kilo
Yes My Honda had door mounted Mids, and I really lucked out....it worked very well. The door mids actually were in a AP set up.Dave Mac knew this and almost let it out of the bag one day while judging and asked "Wheres teh pic's of your AP set up in your door.....DOH!
The doors played from 35-40 hz up to only 500hz Mor of a mid bass than mid-range.
No Time alignment in that car, but My seats were so far back that the path length of the mids to the drivers ears were a little over 4 feet. Thats what helped align those drivers. Plus I had a relly funky phase set-up on the drivers.
Drivers horn in phase, pass out of phase
Driver Mid out of phase, pass in phase
The only problem that car had was heigth. But it had awsome width,imaging, and depth
I LOVE time alignment, but it is again a bandaid for other issue's. Don't take that wrong. I have used it in every car that I have done that has ODR. Remeber that we are in a car you realy can only do so much before you HAVE to use those bandaids. The ODR is nice because it does band specific time alignment (actually delay)
The PPI peice they called a phase shifter was an analog delay. This thing caused phase shift like you wouldn't beleive. You could spin those dials and here it happen. I still have one...kind of a fun thing. But you coudl here the tonallity change and the sound stage went all over the place.
My Impala I don't think will need any alignment, at least with my testing over the years of locations and driver sizes/types. Plus teh seats go back so far that I can't hold the steering wheel (and I'm 6"3)
The SS WILL be out this year.....and some news in coming within the next few weeks about my SS
Guest
Posts: n/a
Jamie, did your horns play right down to 500Hz where the midbass took over? Thats quite a stretch for the 66's, or did you have a gap between horn/midbass? I've heard of some guys leaving a gap between crossover points to alow for cabin gain, was that an issue in the Civic?That brings me to my next question, how steep were your crossover slopes in the car? Are you a firm believer in the steeper the better, or is it vehicle/equipment dependant?
Thanks for all the pointers/info, I am definitely looking forward to spring tuning now... [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
Thanks for all the pointers/info, I am definitely looking forward to spring tuning now... [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
