To all naysayers, are you saying that a difference does not exist between wires just because you fail to hear a difference?

WOW

So, by extension, does that mean:

- No one ever landed on the moon
- The Earth is flat
- The Sun orbits the Earth

I mean, hey you haven't:

- been to the moon
- travelled "around" the world
- "watched" the Earth's orbit from the Sun

Believe it or not, there are people who have heard, seen or done things you or I have not and just because we have not, we should not dispute the findings of those who have.

I will give you an example -- as a kid I used to love pissing off the Pepsi people by picking Coke everytime in the taste challenge or are you going to say there is no difference because you can not tell yourself?

^^^

Your analogy is flawed. Your examples are facts that have been proven. Besides, noone here has had the opportunity to land on the moon, observe the earth from the sun, or even to have travelled "around" the world.

However, many have had the opportunity to listen to different cables and have heard no difference. The failed double blind tests would suggest the difference in sound is mental bias.

[ June 01, 2005, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: B-Burn ]

I wonder if the engineers that design these ultra expensive speaker cables are just trying to justify their existance, or do they really believe they are making a better product?

I mean really...who would fund the research, development, and production of such a thing? Surely people of the intelligence neccessary to produce a highly engineered piece of wire could find a more promosing scam to perpetrate.
Like the Nigerian E-mail scam...now there's a sure thing with no investment up front.

^you are probalby right, it is all a big scam.

Monster Cable has sales of $500,000,000.00 every year....there must be a lot of either gullible or stupid people out there.

Anyways, I hope your post above was sarcasm as mine is......It would be unfortunate if you were really that narrow minded.

PS. A lot of people on this board rely on the sales of high end cables to help make a living.....I do not think any of them think they are scamming anyone.

[ June 01, 2005, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: loudtdi ]

beleive me there probably is very little r/d into this wire and rca cables, three guy sit in an office and decide that the world needs another "exotic" cable they call up mr. off shore plant already making cables and tell them to rebadge a cable and change the cosmetics, now its called"wowbangmoneybuckscable" and WILL make your system sound better! man i can just see them licking there chops when the orders come in. last yr. on the usaci circuit i took the worst cable we had in the store, i mean this stuff was crap and really thin, i ran it properly in my car and soldered on really nice rca ends on it and bingo no noise and did very well on the circuit, the same went for my speaker wire, i used stuff that was more expensive to ship than the wire actually cost, hell i got more back from the recycling depot for the centre plastic housing, than the roll was worth, again no problems, funny how people believe what they want and back it up with fancy numbers and theories. i say real world conditions in real world applications is the best sign of quality.

beamrider,

With your opinion, how do you justify selling anything other than 'crap' to your customers?

If you believe the more expensive cables make no differance and sell them anyways then that is scamming your customer.

[ June 01, 2005, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: loudtdi ]

thse people arent stupid or gullible, i beleive that they are uneducated, thats all, i do beleive that there are very poor quality ie, rot easily, break at the slightest tug, ends come off, then there is nice stuff, which is looks good, solid build, thicker wire inside better connected ends, and better end design, these cables are and should be 5 times the price of our poor quality cables, and will suffice in 99% of all installs home or car, then we go esoteric, now all bets are off huge wire size, massive amounts of teflon sheilding, which dosent help in a car at all, some stupid coating on the end like pure diamond or platinum, and then charge 5 times what our quality cables cost??????? ya right try 50 times man i just cant justify that difference, especially in a car!!! now having the best cabling is no crime thats why monster makes that much money, there cables are damn fine and they convince people that they "need" them for there stereo to work properly, but we all know the commissions we get from monster as opposed to stinger. just a thought

for my customer i qualify what he wants. some want to spend the money on a durable, flashy, bling bling, cable and hell i got that, cant justify the price, but its not my money. then there are some who just want sound and dont care for frills, well sir we have that to. both customers are getting what they want, no one is complaining and no one feels like they have been cheated because they got what they want, my point to the cable thing was that I cant justify paying those prices for esoteric wire, now this is my opinion, and after 16yrs in the industry, no one has really stepped up to the plate and reinvented the cable yet. oh and by the way i have $500 ft. pheonix gold speaker wire for my home stereo, running to my mb quart tower speakers, oops sorry its in my basement, i pulled it out cause it sounded no different from my regular 14 awg wire.

In any product as you approach the top of its price range, you run into diminishing returns on your investment.

EG. A $200.00 pair of speaker cables may get you 85% of the way to the 'ideal' cable. A $2000.00 pair might get you 90% of the way.....Is the extra 5% worth $1500.00? To most people probably not, but to a lot of people it is....Thats why there are expensive things out there to buy.

I justify selling performance cables over cheapies the same way anyone selling something that costs more but performs the same would.

I consider most accessories such as speaker wire 'audio jewelry'. The same analogy could also be made with furniture. I know a person who imported Italian hand crafted furniture straight from Europe for his new house. All told a couch and two chairs came to $14,000. Does it hold his but any better than a $1500 set from the Brick? No. But it has cool factor, no one else has it, and he likes the look.

I like the attitude of Kimber alot better than Monster. Monster Attitude says that you should buy their best most expensive cable to go with that $59 DVD player or $30 CD player. That is so wrong, but it is drilled into thee reps heads and then into the store's sales associates heads. Richard Kimber says that he is not comfortable even selling expensive wire if the equipment doesn't demand it.