NigelNuggets

I would like to apologize in advance as this is the first forum I have decided to join and attempt posting in. I think I posted to the right section, and hope I have not violated any rules. On that note below are my specifications and issues.

I'll start with my current system Specifications.
-Head Unit: Pioneer DEH-6800MP (Upgrading to DEH-80PRS this weekend)
-Front Speakers: Polk Audio DB6501 (Cross Over Mounted in Door)
-Rear Speakers: Polk Audio DB651 (2-way)
-Subwoofer: Pioneer TS-SW3002S4
-Subwoofer Amp: Kenwood KAC-7201 800 Watt
-Front & Rear Amp: Pioneer GM-A6604 (Front Channel A, Rear Channel B)
-Power Cables: 4 Gauge w\ 100 amp fuse at battery, then split into 2 x 8 gauge with two 50 amp fuses in distributor. 8 gauge grounds run under carpeting to ground on chassis.
-Remote Turn on Relay installed.
-Please Note: I have not done the BIG 3 as I only recently learned what exactly this was, and would prefer to wait until spring for work under the hood (if it's even worth it).

Originally I was running the front and rear speakers off of the built in Monsoon Amp and only had changed out the rear speakers. I then purchased the Polk Audio DB6501 Component set to install in the factory tweeter and Mid holes. This meant I had to purchase an aftermarket 4 channel amp to properly power all four speakers. After two days of installing the speakers and new amp wiring it was time to test. I started it up and was plagued with a loud hum\clicking noise. It was only present with the car running, and gone if just running on accessory. I went out and bought 2 ground loop isolators and installed them just before the amp and this noise went away. I have noticed that in the lower RPM when accelerating I can sometimes here a faint whine that changes pitch with the RPM, which seems to disappear if I turn off the radio. The whine also remains the same volume regardless of the volume on the radio. The original noise did not change pitch or volume. I ran the new RCA cables down the opposite side of the car as the subwoofer RCAs as I was running out of space under the trim. There were other cables there so I am not sure if part of this was caused by EMI. The RCA cables are a bit on the cheap side. The nice ones I bought unfortunately did not reach, and the cabling of the ground loop isolators looks somewhat cheap as well so I didn't worry about this as much. Any suggestions on easy things to try to eliminate the whine are greatly appreciated.

My second issue is that the light are dimming slightly. My favorite feature of my current head unit is the battery voltage display option. When I first start the car this display reads 14.4v. During the day even with the heater running, volume up, and foot on the break the lowest dip I can see is down to 13.7v. At night with the regular lights on, heater running, volume up, and foot on the break will dip down to 12.7v. This causes the lights to dim. From what I have learned over the years there are two options to correct this. One is adding a CAP (severely mixed reviews on this being useful, and an entire article saying they are useless by Robert Clark), option 2 being to add another battery which is basically a larger, slower draining cap but also puts more strain on the alternator which is stock currently.

So not to toot my own horn but I feel I have a fairly good knowledge of audio, but I feel as though I have hit a wall where it is difficult to find specific information.

Lastly does anyone know if my current configuration will allow me to use the DEH-80PRS in Standard mode, or will I have to rewire everything to make it network mode compatible. I have already ordered the unit as the adjustments are far better than my current one, but this information was not very specific so I based it off of the frequency options and outputs listed in the manual.

BIGEVIL

While the car is running, unplug the RCA cables at the amp.
If the noise goes away then you are picking up interference in the cables or bad ground at the head unit.
If the noise stays, you have a ground issue at the amp.

Capacitors are usefull for quick surges. A battery and/or alt takes almost 1/10 of a second to recover from a large power demand. By that time it is too late for the amp. A cap will supply power instantly.

Your alt issue is simply because it is probably failing. The hotter they get (read normal underhood temps) the less they produce. If it is dipping to 12.7 with normal car functions then I would have it checked. A failing alt can also make a lot of electrical noise.

Adding another battery is useless. The only purpose for a battery is to start the car. Once the engine is running, the alt is the sole provider of power.
A second battery will only allow you to play the system longer when the engine is not running.

DEH-80PRS? Not a clue.

NigelNuggets

From what I understand with stock alternators is that they are only a high enough capacity to support the car's built in equipment and stock radio. By upgrading and running two amps I am now pulling a larger draw from the battery. If the radio is off or at a low volume the voltage remains normal, it is only when using most of the car's built in equipment plus having the radio cranked (volume at 52 of 62) that I start to see dips. This to me doesn't show a failing alternator, but rather one that can't keep up with the extra draw from and upgraded stereo. Also the dip to 12.7 is only for half a second when coming to a stop, once my foot is lifted off the brake it instantly jumps back up to 13.8+. Shutting the heat off usually gets me another .1-.2v and with the lights off during the day I can get a steady 14v

BIGEVIL

By exceeding the output of the alt is the ONLY time you will draw power from the battery (while the engine is running of course)

Most healthy factory alts should be able to keep up with a modest system as you have described. (unless you are playing 140db+ for extended periods) Most are rated 100-120 amps cold. When they heat up, expect a 10-20% decrease.

Adding a battery or Cap will not help you. I still think from what you have described that your alt is starting to fail. And if isn't now, it will. You have already shown yourself that it can not keep up. It is just a matter of time before the brushes wear out or the rectifier goes "poof".

NigelNuggets

ok. So it sounds like the best root may be to do the BIG 3 and potentially get a new or higher output alternator.

Unfortunately I do not have an SPL meter to test with currently though I am curious to see what I am pushing. I would guess under 140db still but upgrades are coming slowly as I learn more and expand my budget (read pay off bills).

I did figure out that the DEH-80PRS can be used with my current set up if run in standard mode, unfortunately this takes away some minor adjustments but I may rewire in the future to an active set up to switch into network mode and gain the additional crossover adjustments etc.

So far this is the largest system that i have put together myself. Although sometimes I wish it would go louder I have been quite happy with the sound up till now. I also would like to find time in the future to go to some competitions (spectating of course) to get a better idea of what the higher quality components sound like and of course as much information as people are willing to give.

BIGEVIL

For a lack of installation headaches, I have taken my vehicle specific alts and sent them out to have them upgraded.

These guys can usually add an addtional 50 amps without any modifications to the case or connectors.

I have sent 3 different ones to them. All 3 worked great.

Starters, Alternators and more for Cars, Trucks, Tractors and ATVs

Putting on an aftermarket monster can be challenging to say the least.

NigelNuggets

That is definitely something I will have to look into. Unfortunately this is my daily driver so I may have to get another one so it can still be driven in the meantime. *sighs* Someday i'll be able to afford a second, more fun vehicle

BIGEVIL

You could buy a used alt from a wrecking yard (probably cheap) and send it out to be rebuilt and upgraded

NigelNuggets

So I have had the Pioneer DEH-80PRS installed for a bit now and I am quite pleased with the sound quality improvement. Many have mentioned that the menus are confusing but I have always liked the pioneer units and have no issues with this, although it can be a bit tedious going back and forth from the different crossover settings to double check. I am running it in standard mode instead of network (Front, Rear, Sub vs High, Mid, Low) I love the ability to individually control the front and rear crossovers separately as they are not matching speakers and perform differently.

Now the off topic question. Since changing to this unit my radio reception has gotten a little worse. Unfortunately I am not so lucky to have a decent antenna either as the current one is built in to the driver's side rear window. I am looking to possibly install a power (+12v not motorized) antenna of sorts in attempt to boost my signal. From what I understand this would need to be wired into the ignition as to not continually draw battery power, or the radio power antenna lead (this unit doesn't have one). Where as I was running two amps on a lower end unit previously I installed a relay for my remote turn on leads. Could I also connect the antenna to the relay? I know the remote turn on uses only about a 1\2 amp to turn on but wasn't sure the draw on the antenna.

I wanted to also say thank you to BIGEVIL for helping with all this as you have been the only one responding and have given very helpful advice that I have been unable to find anywhere else on the internet (just too much to sift through now a days). I have not yet had a chance to test out the ground loop issues as suggested due to the 1 degree temperatur or lower but as soon as the weather warms up this will be looked at.

BIGEVIL

Pioneer heads usually have very weak voltage for amp turn on wires. Sometimes they can only turn on 1 amp. Splice that blue wire for 2 amps and neither will come on. A relay is usually the better way to go.

Yes, that same relay can be used for a power ant kit. There are some better kits available from companies that specialize in older hot rods. Dakota digital comes to mind...