Myth about Guaged wire?
Originally Posted by Gen1_Rx7
I was using it as a point (not regarding voltage drop, thermal capabilities etc.) that is physically possible without very quikly burning out the wire where as 12 volts 20 amps and 1000feet not so much.
i was merely stating it in a way that people could understand what i ment
and i would like to know what buildings you are "predominantly" using 600Volts on (other than mains and feeders) cuz any commercial building i drive by on the street is "predominantly" 3 phase 340 volts and residential is single phase 120v. it depends what you as a sparky predominantly work on.
-be quick to tell people how you must know more than them - what if i were a sparky too?
i was merely stating it in a way that people could understand what i ment
and i would like to know what buildings you are "predominantly" using 600Volts on (other than mains and feeders) cuz any commercial building i drive by on the street is "predominantly" 3 phase 340 volts and residential is single phase 120v. it depends what you as a sparky predominantly work on.
-be quick to tell people how you must know more than them - what if i were a sparky too?
there is no 340 volt systems out there... maybe in mongolia or something, but not in canada.
Most industrial and commercial equipment is 600 volts, though a lot is coming in that is 480 volt from the US and Japan.
oh, and I checked this afternoon... tpo run 20 amps 1000 feet, at 600 volts, would take 4 guage wire acording to the CEC.
and if you were a sparky too (I detest the term "sparky" since sparks only show up if someone does something stupid) I think you'd have a bit more understanding.
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 109
I am stating that generally the most common voltages are 347 and 120 everything you plug into a wall is 120 and yes lighting is 347 - this is what the "common" person uses day to day is it not? that is what I was trying to explain - and it is the equipment you work on that is consistently 600 volts not what everybody uses - walk into any store say Wal-Mart or sears or a restaurant and tell me what is most commonly running the equipment. yes industrial leans more toward higher voltage for equipment and motors but in commercial and residential voltages are not commonly that high and there are more electricians working on these voltages not 600volts just because you predominantly work on higher voltage does not mean "most" electricians do - linesman work on some pretty crazy voltages but that does not mean most people working with electrical do right?
I am sorry if I were previously stating things so everyone reading this thread can understand - things normally don’t come out the way I want them unless I generalize.
and about the 4 gauge wire over 1000 feet yes this would be code - I was not explaining as though it were code I was trying to state that it is more achievable than with 12volt DC Right?
is pulling 16amps @120volts AC on 12 gauge not more reasonable than if it were 12Volt DC?
I have seen a 12 AWG T90 take 68amps @120volt AC over 15 seconds with a 5 second break and then repeated 6 more times due to a bad transformer and bad Breaker the length of the run was close to 780feet - the insulation at the breaker and the ballast was tacky for about 5 inches but the rest of the run was still visually in tacked. now can we not both agree that this would have been slightly worse had it been 12Volt DC? this was past the wires limitations and was not to code but it still held up - this is the point I’m trying to convey i hope this is a little more clear this time
I am sorry if I were previously stating things so everyone reading this thread can understand - things normally don’t come out the way I want them unless I generalize.
and about the 4 gauge wire over 1000 feet yes this would be code - I was not explaining as though it were code I was trying to state that it is more achievable than with 12volt DC Right?
is pulling 16amps @120volts AC on 12 gauge not more reasonable than if it were 12Volt DC?
I have seen a 12 AWG T90 take 68amps @120volt AC over 15 seconds with a 5 second break and then repeated 6 more times due to a bad transformer and bad Breaker the length of the run was close to 780feet - the insulation at the breaker and the ballast was tacky for about 5 inches but the rest of the run was still visually in tacked. now can we not both agree that this would have been slightly worse had it been 12Volt DC? this was past the wires limitations and was not to code but it still held up - this is the point I’m trying to convey i hope this is a little more clear this time
you are right, current handling for a given distance does increase with voltage, as does the available power (watts*volts)
just to clarify... 347 volt lighting is part of a 600V system... line-line is 600V, line - neutral is 374 volts. so it is a 600 volt system.
and in most sears/wal-mart stores, most of the equipment that is running, IE hvac, compressors, etc, is 600 volts.
but I agree, 12 volts is a different setup, and requires that it's own set of rules be adhered to.
a 780 foot run of #12 was only isntalled by someone who wasn't paying attention, and wasn't a good electrician. they'd be better to run a higher voltage line and put a transformer on the other end.
just to clarify... 347 volt lighting is part of a 600V system... line-line is 600V, line - neutral is 374 volts. so it is a 600 volt system.
and in most sears/wal-mart stores, most of the equipment that is running, IE hvac, compressors, etc, is 600 volts.
but I agree, 12 volts is a different setup, and requires that it's own set of rules be adhered to.
a 780 foot run of #12 was only isntalled by someone who wasn't paying attention, and wasn't a good electrician. they'd be better to run a higher voltage line and put a transformer on the other end.
Originally Posted by masterstone
So I have 2 12" subs, an amp and some 0 gauge on its way. I am going to run it through my frame/under the car. Since I work construction there are big rubber cords running around about 1 1/4" thick. I asked one of the sparky's for some advice about what I should put around my wiring (under my car) to protect it from heat/rocks/anything to make me buy more.
I told him about what I had ordered so he had somewhat of an idea what I was dealing with, and him and his lead hand laughed and talked about car audio being over rated, etc.
I was a little disappointed because I love loud music and **** anyone else (my usual opinion but they were helping me out so...)
Anyways, he ended up telling me that the guage of a wire doesn't matter.
I didn't think anything of it because I've melted/burnt some 10 guage and upgraded to 4 gauge and it fixed the problem.
1. I just want some re-assurance on this as I'm not the most experienced with electrical and car audio.
I told him about what I had ordered so he had somewhat of an idea what I was dealing with, and him and his lead hand laughed and talked about car audio being over rated, etc.
I was a little disappointed because I love loud music and **** anyone else (my usual opinion but they were helping me out so...)
Anyways, he ended up telling me that the guage of a wire doesn't matter.
I didn't think anything of it because I've melted/burnt some 10 guage and upgraded to 4 gauge and it fixed the problem.
1. I just want some re-assurance on this as I'm not the most experienced with electrical and car audio.
sorry i dint read the whole post.. but to men car audio and thickneess of wire is like sex to women... THICKER is BETTER!
0 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1
Audio cables running "outside" the car? I don't think so, Tim.
A quality power distribution system should be continuous (no splices except for 200A fuse within 18" of the battery) 4ga from the battery to the B+ distro block. Another 4ga from a solid ground to B- distro block. Now you can distribute all your power from there. Unless you are running many huge amps, 4ga is plenty, 0ga if you want.
Be prepared to invest at least $350 in power distribution. It's money well spent for both safety and performance. Do it right the first time.
A quality power distribution system should be continuous (no splices except for 200A fuse within 18" of the battery) 4ga from the battery to the B+ distro block. Another 4ga from a solid ground to B- distro block. Now you can distribute all your power from there. Unless you are running many huge amps, 4ga is plenty, 0ga if you want.
Be prepared to invest at least $350 in power distribution. It's money well spent for both safety and performance. Do it right the first time.
Thread Starter
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 98
Hahaha MTA nice way to put that 
I spent $60 on the Kicker PKD1 0 guage pack, I have distro blocks, 300a fuse, 20 ft 0 guage etc etc and no I am not running it under my car anymore as I found a spot in my firewall (lucky me).
I currently am waiting on my 2 12" premier ts-w3001d4 subs, so I just ran the wiring to my new amp which is hooked up to my current sub. All is going well so far, and if I can get pictures I found a sneaky *** way to place my sub box.
This is kind of getting off topic so just wanted to say thanks for helpin me everyone as soon as its all done i'll try to get pics =)
Originally Posted by Hosehead
Audio cables running "outside" the car? I don't think so, Tim.
A quality power distribution system should be continuous (no splices except for 200A fuse within 18" of the battery) 4ga from the battery to the B+ distro block. Another 4ga from a solid ground to B- distro block. Now you can distribute all your power from there. Unless you are running many huge amps, 4ga is plenty, 0ga if you want.
Be prepared to invest at least $350 in power distribution. It's money well spent for both safety and performance. Do it right the first time.
A quality power distribution system should be continuous (no splices except for 200A fuse within 18" of the battery) 4ga from the battery to the B+ distro block. Another 4ga from a solid ground to B- distro block. Now you can distribute all your power from there. Unless you are running many huge amps, 4ga is plenty, 0ga if you want.
Be prepared to invest at least $350 in power distribution. It's money well spent for both safety and performance. Do it right the first time.
I currently am waiting on my 2 12" premier ts-w3001d4 subs, so I just ran the wiring to my new amp which is hooked up to my current sub. All is going well so far, and if I can get pictures I found a sneaky *** way to place my sub box.
This is kind of getting off topic so just wanted to say thanks for helpin me everyone as soon as its all done i'll try to get pics =)
Originally Posted by Hosehead
Audio cables running "outside" the car? I don't think so, Tim.
A quality power distribution system should be continuous (no splices except for 200A fuse within 18" of the battery) 4ga from the battery to the B+ distro block. Another 4ga from a solid ground to B- distro block. Now you can distribute all your power from there. Unless you are running many huge amps, 4ga is plenty, 0ga if you want.
Be prepared to invest at least $350 in power distribution. It's money well spent for both safety and performance. Do it right the first time.
A quality power distribution system should be continuous (no splices except for 200A fuse within 18" of the battery) 4ga from the battery to the B+ distro block. Another 4ga from a solid ground to B- distro block. Now you can distribute all your power from there. Unless you are running many huge amps, 4ga is plenty, 0ga if you want.
Be prepared to invest at least $350 in power distribution. It's money well spent for both safety and performance. Do it right the first time.
Thread Starter
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by veeman
That's a lot to spend on power distribution...20 ft of 0 awg welding cable is 40.00 at princess auto...distro blocks can be bought for 15 bucks each and even heavy duty 0awg ring terminals are $5 or less at princess and a few other places i know. Don't waste your money...welding cable rocks...it's flexible, very durable (it's industrial strength man), and cheap!!!
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by Hosehead
Audio cables running "outside" the car? I don't think so, Tim.
A quality power distribution system should be continuous (no splices except for 200A fuse within 18" of the battery) 4ga from the battery to the B+ distro block. Another 4ga from a solid ground to B- distro block. Now you can distribute all your power from there. Unless you are running many huge amps, 4ga is plenty, 0ga if you want.
Be prepared to invest at least $350 in power distribution. It's money well spent for both safety and performance. Do it right the first time.
A quality power distribution system should be continuous (no splices except for 200A fuse within 18" of the battery) 4ga from the battery to the B+ distro block. Another 4ga from a solid ground to B- distro block. Now you can distribute all your power from there. Unless you are running many huge amps, 4ga is plenty, 0ga if you want.
Be prepared to invest at least $350 in power distribution. It's money well spent for both safety and performance. Do it right the first time.
Its definatly something a kid and a bucket of tools should not be atempting !
