Sound deadening doors!
12-08-2004, 05:10 PM
#121
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
^^^Nice name!!
I've been through this before, but I'll refresh the main point.
It's oil based modeling clay, it doesn't desolve in water. I used a microwave to get it hot enough to actually melt, I don't know if the weather in Florida would get it that hot. That said, it's on the inside of the door, so it's away from any sheetmetal that would be in direct contact with sunlight.
I don't think silicone would be that practical to build up the way I did the modeling clay. I have heard another member of this board using a paste like rubber to do the same thing, I'll check if he's willing to share his secret. (he competes with his vehicle)
Adam
I've been through this before, but I'll refresh the main point.
It's oil based modeling clay, it doesn't desolve in water. I used a microwave to get it hot enough to actually melt, I don't know if the weather in Florida would get it that hot. That said, it's on the inside of the door, so it's away from any sheetmetal that would be in direct contact with sunlight.
I don't think silicone would be that practical to build up the way I did the modeling clay. I have heard another member of this board using a paste like rubber to do the same thing, I'll check if he's willing to share his secret. (he competes with his vehicle)
Adam
12-09-2004, 09:17 AM
#122
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3
Thanks for the info Adam!
Down here during the summer the inside temperature of your car can get very hot and I was worried that the clay would soften up and lose its hold. I'll just have to try it out and hope for the best.
Using Rubber sounds like a good solution as well...it should be able to handle the water and heat factor as well.
Thanks,
Mike
Down here during the summer the inside temperature of your car can get very hot and I was worried that the clay would soften up and lose its hold. I'll just have to try it out and hope for the best.
Using Rubber sounds like a good solution as well...it should be able to handle the water and heat factor as well.
Thanks,
Mike
12-09-2004, 07:27 PM
#124
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,026
Adam, when will you post more pics? Beautiful work. I am curious about what you are going to do with the mid range, the mid range is why there is a semi-circle cut out in the pocket behind the mid-bass, correct? Or are you mounting the mids in the kick (you did mention something about that). If that is what you are doing what is the purpose of the semi-circle you cut out in the door pocket?
Keep up with awesome work. What amp(s) do you have running the focals?
Keep up with awesome work. What amp(s) do you have running the focals?
12-11-2004, 10:10 AM
#125
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
More pictures will come when I actually get somewhere with the rest of the install. I suppose I could post what it looks like right now, but it's more a patch job to make it look OK for the wife.
The hole behind the midbass is where I hacked in the 4" mids in to get the system running in Aug.03. The plan has always been to redo the bottom part of the door, so I wasn't worried about cutting it up. I didn't, however, think that it would take me this long to actually finish the doors.
The 4" mids are in the kick panel area. So far, I've built a number of wood and fiberglass kick panels. But, I keep finding ways of improving both the construction and sound of the kick panel, so it too is unfinished. I have found the optimun angling for the midrange drivers, but the next version of my kick panels may change how they are tuned in this respect. I've been playing with semi acoustically transparent screens in front the drivers; they help in tuning high frequency information off axis. I've also found that recessing the midrange flush, and even semi-indented on the enclosure baffle changes upper midrange response both on and off axis. I'm still playing with this in conjunction with the above screens to find a happy compromise.
Now here's where I depart from conventional kick panel wisdom. Usually, you try to play the kick mounted mids from as low to as high a frequency as possible. What I've found in my vehicle is an optimal bandwidth where the midranges image beautifully, but it's rather unconventional. Due to the mids being tucked up under the dash so far, I've found reflections and resonances to play a big part of this bandwidth. I'm playing the 4" mids from 500hz up to 4.5khz on the left and 4khz on the right. The Utopia 6.5" midranges can mesh well with a 450hz low pass point, but it requires a lot of EQ to make it work. (My door mounting provides an increase in efficiency from about 150hz down that needs to be leveled out) That said, I'm now going to have to work on angling the midbass drivers. Another forum member with a Utopia 165W3 kit has tried this and had great results. (and I'm playing my midbass much higher than he is)
All of the above is geared towards improving how the system IMAGES. I know that this is something that some of you place less emphasis on than tonality. But...I've kind of got the tonality of my system dialed in already. With the exception of my tweeters, the midrange and midbass performance has always made me smile. Sure, I've always found ways to improve this, but right now I don't consider this to be my weakest link.
I really don't like to draw attention to the amps much anymore, because I'm finding them less and less to be the star performers of my system. I'm not saying that my amps are bad, (or not worth the price) it's just that I've got enough power to do what I want to do. Yes they sound fantastically good to my ears, but they can be humbled easily when I mess up my tunning or installation.(I'm always experimenting)
Here's my amplification:
Tweeters: 2 channels of an Arc Audio XXK 4150
Midranges: other 2 channels of an Arc Audio XXK 4150
Midbass: Audison VRx2.400
Subs: Audison VRx1.500
I've just been swamped with more work for the winter, so I don't know when I'm going to get a chance to work much on the car.
More questions are welcome though,
Adam
[ December 11, 2004, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: PEI330Ci ]
The hole behind the midbass is where I hacked in the 4" mids in to get the system running in Aug.03. The plan has always been to redo the bottom part of the door, so I wasn't worried about cutting it up. I didn't, however, think that it would take me this long to actually finish the doors.
The 4" mids are in the kick panel area. So far, I've built a number of wood and fiberglass kick panels. But, I keep finding ways of improving both the construction and sound of the kick panel, so it too is unfinished. I have found the optimun angling for the midrange drivers, but the next version of my kick panels may change how they are tuned in this respect. I've been playing with semi acoustically transparent screens in front the drivers; they help in tuning high frequency information off axis. I've also found that recessing the midrange flush, and even semi-indented on the enclosure baffle changes upper midrange response both on and off axis. I'm still playing with this in conjunction with the above screens to find a happy compromise.
Now here's where I depart from conventional kick panel wisdom. Usually, you try to play the kick mounted mids from as low to as high a frequency as possible. What I've found in my vehicle is an optimal bandwidth where the midranges image beautifully, but it's rather unconventional. Due to the mids being tucked up under the dash so far, I've found reflections and resonances to play a big part of this bandwidth. I'm playing the 4" mids from 500hz up to 4.5khz on the left and 4khz on the right. The Utopia 6.5" midranges can mesh well with a 450hz low pass point, but it requires a lot of EQ to make it work. (My door mounting provides an increase in efficiency from about 150hz down that needs to be leveled out) That said, I'm now going to have to work on angling the midbass drivers. Another forum member with a Utopia 165W3 kit has tried this and had great results. (and I'm playing my midbass much higher than he is)
All of the above is geared towards improving how the system IMAGES. I know that this is something that some of you place less emphasis on than tonality. But...I've kind of got the tonality of my system dialed in already. With the exception of my tweeters, the midrange and midbass performance has always made me smile. Sure, I've always found ways to improve this, but right now I don't consider this to be my weakest link.
I really don't like to draw attention to the amps much anymore, because I'm finding them less and less to be the star performers of my system. I'm not saying that my amps are bad, (or not worth the price) it's just that I've got enough power to do what I want to do. Yes they sound fantastically good to my ears, but they can be humbled easily when I mess up my tunning or installation.(I'm always experimenting)
Here's my amplification:
Tweeters: 2 channels of an Arc Audio XXK 4150
Midranges: other 2 channels of an Arc Audio XXK 4150
Midbass: Audison VRx2.400
Subs: Audison VRx1.500
I've just been swamped with more work for the winter, so I don't know when I'm going to get a chance to work much on the car.
More questions are welcome though,
Adam
[ December 11, 2004, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: PEI330Ci ]
12-19-2004, 11:07 AM
#127
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 146
Originally posted by Kilowatt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Halo1:
You won't beleive the difference in sound and output when applying deadener behinder your speaker inside your door...it increases output significantly at 140HZ without distorting your speakers either. I must of put 4-5 layers directly behind my speaker and it does not sound hollow anymore, or weak and tiny. [img]graemlins/bow.gif[/img]
[img]graemlins/bump.gif[/img]
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Halo1:
You won't beleive the difference in sound and output when applying deadener behinder your speaker inside your door...it increases output significantly at 140HZ without distorting your speakers either. I must of put 4-5 layers directly behind my speaker and it does not sound hollow anymore, or weak and tiny. [img]graemlins/bow.gif[/img]
[img]graemlins/bump.gif[/img]
Originally posted by Halo1:
OK...Hmmm maybe I should experiment with clay...currently I have just finished applying 8-10 layers of B-Quiet extreme in the door behind my 6" woofer...
OK...Hmmm maybe I should experiment with clay...currently I have just finished applying 8-10 layers of B-Quiet extreme in the door behind my 6" woofer...
12-20-2004, 06:45 AM
#130
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 146
Originally posted by SUX 2BU:
Wow, doing extreme dampening behind your door-mounted 6" mid caused your soundstage to increase beyond the roof and doors eh? Please enlighten us on your truly unbelieveable method!
Wow, doing extreme dampening behind your door-mounted 6" mid caused your soundstage to increase beyond the roof and doors eh? Please enlighten us on your truly unbelieveable method!
Hope that helps. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
[ December 20, 2004, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Halo1 ]
