Deck power sounds better then external amp? Is there something wrong here?
12-07-2005, 01:35 AM
#1
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1
I have a Kenwood DVD/LCD flipout receiver (50wX4) and focal speakers front and back. I was previously using deck power to run the focal speakers (6.5" 2-way coxial & 6.5" components) and they sounded pretty good running off deck power. I'd thought I would add 4ch amp to get better highs/mids/bass response, so I added a Kenwood 4x60W RMS amp, and I found that besides having more volume capability, the mids and highs sounded alright then with deck power which is fine, but the bass is quite abit worse running off this amp then off deck power with the same settings and tunning? Playing at the same volume level and settings, bass was much deeper, cleaner and louder running off deck power, but when running off the amp, the bass sounded flat,dull, thin and sounded softer compared with deck power?
I brought my car back and had the installer double check and verify that the leads were in phase between the speakers and amp. Seems all is fine with the connections. Had him also check the tuning on the amp and deck. Output quality of the Kenwood (4x60W RMS) amp (entry level amp) as far as the low end bass is concerned still seemed flatter, duller and thinner compared to running of deck power. The output power, mids and highs were fine on the amp. So I had him swap the amp with a Clarion amp (4x50w RMS...also entry level) and the same result.
THere was some difference between the clarion and Kenwood amp. The clarion seem abit smoother and had abit more low end bass compared with the Kenwood. But still compared with deck power (from low to moderate volumes, the bass response was far superior. I had an amp kit with 4 gauge wirew ith inline fuse to the battery. Seemed like pretty decentquality and it cost me about $60 for it.
The sales person could not explain it either, and he is assuming that the cutoffs on the amp must be higher then what is on the deck which is why I seem to be getting abit deeper bass from my satellite speakers. Anyone know of any brand of amps which retain a lower cutoff as my deck would have?
Today, I called and asked the store again who said he "apparantly" spoke with 4 other "contacts" he knows and according to those contacts, they all said "If you push more watt, you'll lose bass PERIOD..." and "not much you CAN do unless you get a subwoofer"? Is he BS'ing me or what? This just does not make any sense. I am not looking to get "subwoofer" type bass and know it is impossible with the speakers I have. But I was truly hoping for better sound quality compared with deck power when listening at soft to moderate volumes.
Please advise?
Thanks
I brought my car back and had the installer double check and verify that the leads were in phase between the speakers and amp. Seems all is fine with the connections. Had him also check the tuning on the amp and deck. Output quality of the Kenwood (4x60W RMS) amp (entry level amp) as far as the low end bass is concerned still seemed flatter, duller and thinner compared to running of deck power. The output power, mids and highs were fine on the amp. So I had him swap the amp with a Clarion amp (4x50w RMS...also entry level) and the same result.
THere was some difference between the clarion and Kenwood amp. The clarion seem abit smoother and had abit more low end bass compared with the Kenwood. But still compared with deck power (from low to moderate volumes, the bass response was far superior. I had an amp kit with 4 gauge wirew ith inline fuse to the battery. Seemed like pretty decentquality and it cost me about $60 for it.
The sales person could not explain it either, and he is assuming that the cutoffs on the amp must be higher then what is on the deck which is why I seem to be getting abit deeper bass from my satellite speakers. Anyone know of any brand of amps which retain a lower cutoff as my deck would have?
Today, I called and asked the store again who said he "apparantly" spoke with 4 other "contacts" he knows and according to those contacts, they all said "If you push more watt, you'll lose bass PERIOD..." and "not much you CAN do unless you get a subwoofer"? Is he BS'ing me or what? This just does not make any sense. I am not looking to get "subwoofer" type bass and know it is impossible with the speakers I have. But I was truly hoping for better sound quality compared with deck power when listening at soft to moderate volumes.
Please advise?
Thanks
12-07-2005, 06:56 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
you need to find a different installer/shop
my initila thoughts are to check phase, which you said you did but i would take it to a different shop and have them quickly check again. then check to make sure that a hipass crossover hasnt been turned on accidentally
the whole more power=less bass/midbass things makes me suspect of the abilities of the shop you went to and would recommend another one. im no too sure where you are from so a referral is useless. pm me where you are from and i might be able to recommend a good, knowledgable shop
my initila thoughts are to check phase, which you said you did but i would take it to a different shop and have them quickly check again. then check to make sure that a hipass crossover hasnt been turned on accidentally
the whole more power=less bass/midbass things makes me suspect of the abilities of the shop you went to and would recommend another one. im no too sure where you are from so a referral is useless. pm me where you are from and i might be able to recommend a good, knowledgable shop
12-07-2005, 01:32 PM
#3
You're in BC, which shop was it?
I thought the same too as defro about some kind of internal crossover probably on the deck that is turned on. I know some decks have automatic settings when it comes to connecting an amp and/or perhaps the deck internal crossover is turned on. When using deck power, it sends a full-range signal to the speakers but when using the RCA outputs, it could have triggered a crossover to turn on.
I thought the same too as defro about some kind of internal crossover probably on the deck that is turned on. I know some decks have automatic settings when it comes to connecting an amp and/or perhaps the deck internal crossover is turned on. When using deck power, it sends a full-range signal to the speakers but when using the RCA outputs, it could have triggered a crossover to turn on.
12-08-2005, 02:13 PM
#6
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,026
The problem is obviously not the speakers because you have heard them perform well with 20WRMS from the Deck (50x4 is peak and means jack). The amps you played with have 2.5 - 3 times more power than the deck. There is no reason why they shouldn't sound considerably better.
Like the above posts, my first reaction was a High-pass cross-over; either on the amp or the deck. But since they changed amps, it is likely on the deck.
Likewise, phase could be a problem. This is easy to check. Fade all the music to one speaker. Then gradually fade in a second speaker. If the bass diminishes as you add another the speaker, those two speakers are out of phase. I had this in my car once. One rear speaker sounded fine, but both of them together lost all the bass - but the mids and highs were fine. When speakers are out of phase, the one pushes, while the other pulls therefore counteracting eachother.
Eitherway; if either of these are the problem - go to another shop. THe shop should know about your equipment's crossovers and MORE so should know how to wire speakers in phase. How hard is it to connect + to +?
Like the above posts, my first reaction was a High-pass cross-over; either on the amp or the deck. But since they changed amps, it is likely on the deck.
Likewise, phase could be a problem. This is easy to check. Fade all the music to one speaker. Then gradually fade in a second speaker. If the bass diminishes as you add another the speaker, those two speakers are out of phase. I had this in my car once. One rear speaker sounded fine, but both of them together lost all the bass - but the mids and highs were fine. When speakers are out of phase, the one pushes, while the other pulls therefore counteracting eachother.
Eitherway; if either of these are the problem - go to another shop. THe shop should know about your equipment's crossovers and MORE so should know how to wire speakers in phase. How hard is it to connect + to +?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Audiofool
General Discussion
3
04-25-2007 03:41 PM
