Kenwood 993 vs Eclipse 5030
10-24-2009, 10:50 PM
#22
sounds good, I still think I am going for the eclipse the extra I would spend on the kenwood is going to go towards a remote start
Only thing that slightly dawned on me is I could fit a flip out but I have yet to hear of a person that likes there's I would want one with gps and then the price climbs
Only thing that slightly dawned on me is I could fit a flip out but I have yet to hear of a person that likes there's I would want one with gps and then the price climbs
Last edited by ndinadis; 10-24-2009 at 10:52 PM.
10-29-2009, 12:22 AM
#25
Recieved the deck tonight when I got home and spend most if the evening installing it, (first deck install and nothing had instructions...)
I have the deck in, hooked up etc, need to run the mic tomorrow.
Sounds amazing night and day, I haven't even played around with it too much.
I have the deck in, hooked up etc, need to run the mic tomorrow.
Sounds amazing night and day, I haven't even played around with it too much.
11-12-2009, 01:40 PM
#27
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 20
Hi guys, I have been using the Kenwood X993 for a couple of weeks now. So far, I am having mixed feelings about it...
1) Bluetooth is really convenient to have. This is an awesome feature. SQ on the Bluetooth is OK, maybe not the best, but whatever its as good or better than my BT headset. I have the mike on the dash and it picks up my voice really loudly. It also picks up a lot of road noise, but I drive a noisy Honda Civic, so that’s to be expected I guess.
2) USB/iPod integration is my favourite thing about the deck so far. iPod navigation is similar to the control on the unit. The only thing is it doesn't have is cover art. USB control is identical to an iPod.
3) I don't think the controls are that weird personally.
4) SQ leaves something to be desired IMO. The features were something I thought I would like, but I leave all of them disabled because I think they color or distort the sound. The only one I use regularly is the HP crossover for front and rear speakers. I occasionally use the listening position adjustment which does auto time alignment based on the some typical compact car. I find the rest of the features like Supreme+ to be fatiguing.
FYI - the EQ section is not parametric. That is a misprint. The Q and center frequencies are fixed which IMO makes it a graphic equalizer. The only thing to adjust is the gain/cut.
I think that while the DAC’s seem to have more detail in this deck than my previous deck, the amplifier section is not as clean. The result (again) is that the sound is a little fatiguing. I have this to be especially true with the USB files which are compressed. My music is WMA Lossless at home, but these don’t play in the deck. I have WMA 192 files for the car and they don’t sound the same to me due to the compression. The m4a files haven’t worked for me yet. I don’t know why but the deck said unsupported on the first try and the file wasn’t encrypted. CD’s sound better, but the output through the amp still isn’t as clean as I would like.
Would I buy this unit again? I am not sure. The deck has the features I wanted, but I don’t think the SQ is what I had expected.
EDIT: I just scoped the decks output to a 60 Hz sinewave to the rear left speaker with a Fluke PQ Meter/Oscilliscope. At low volume the deck was putting out over 1% THD, which is very disappointing. I don't know how this compares to other built-in amplifiers in other decks though. I guess if you want to get the most of this deck then a multichannel amp is essential.
On a positive note, I connected the scope to my Kenwood X1R amp with Very Good results! Same 60 Hz sinewave, through the decks pre-outs and the amp, and to 2-12" Alpine Type-R subs. At one above maximum listening volume (26) the amp was putting out 1600 W at 0.6% THD (using the AC voltage inputs and current transducer). Thats pretty damn good for a 1200 W RMS amp. Unfortunately the Fluke battery died before I got any good low level results. I may run the test again when the battery is charged to see how it performs at normal listening levels.
1) Bluetooth is really convenient to have. This is an awesome feature. SQ on the Bluetooth is OK, maybe not the best, but whatever its as good or better than my BT headset. I have the mike on the dash and it picks up my voice really loudly. It also picks up a lot of road noise, but I drive a noisy Honda Civic, so that’s to be expected I guess.
2) USB/iPod integration is my favourite thing about the deck so far. iPod navigation is similar to the control on the unit. The only thing is it doesn't have is cover art. USB control is identical to an iPod.
3) I don't think the controls are that weird personally.
4) SQ leaves something to be desired IMO. The features were something I thought I would like, but I leave all of them disabled because I think they color or distort the sound. The only one I use regularly is the HP crossover for front and rear speakers. I occasionally use the listening position adjustment which does auto time alignment based on the some typical compact car. I find the rest of the features like Supreme+ to be fatiguing.
FYI - the EQ section is not parametric. That is a misprint. The Q and center frequencies are fixed which IMO makes it a graphic equalizer. The only thing to adjust is the gain/cut.
I think that while the DAC’s seem to have more detail in this deck than my previous deck, the amplifier section is not as clean. The result (again) is that the sound is a little fatiguing. I have this to be especially true with the USB files which are compressed. My music is WMA Lossless at home, but these don’t play in the deck. I have WMA 192 files for the car and they don’t sound the same to me due to the compression. The m4a files haven’t worked for me yet. I don’t know why but the deck said unsupported on the first try and the file wasn’t encrypted. CD’s sound better, but the output through the amp still isn’t as clean as I would like.
Would I buy this unit again? I am not sure. The deck has the features I wanted, but I don’t think the SQ is what I had expected.
EDIT: I just scoped the decks output to a 60 Hz sinewave to the rear left speaker with a Fluke PQ Meter/Oscilliscope. At low volume the deck was putting out over 1% THD, which is very disappointing. I don't know how this compares to other built-in amplifiers in other decks though. I guess if you want to get the most of this deck then a multichannel amp is essential.
On a positive note, I connected the scope to my Kenwood X1R amp with Very Good results! Same 60 Hz sinewave, through the decks pre-outs and the amp, and to 2-12" Alpine Type-R subs. At one above maximum listening volume (26) the amp was putting out 1600 W at 0.6% THD (using the AC voltage inputs and current transducer). Thats pretty damn good for a 1200 W RMS amp. Unfortunately the Fluke battery died before I got any good low level results. I may run the test again when the battery is charged to see how it performs at normal listening levels.
Last edited by kstich; 11-12-2009 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Scoped the amp outputs
11-12-2009, 07:35 PM
#28
Wow I wish I had a hand held scope (actually I am looking to get one can you post your model the fluke is probably more expensive then I am looking though as I am still only an EE student)
So to copy and modify to my experience
Hi guys, I have been using the Eclipse 5030 for a couple of weeks now. So far, I am having mixed but generally good feelings about it... lol
1) Bluetooth is really great to have. This is an awesome feature. SQ on the Bluetooth is good on my end but tinny on the callers, its also very quiet so I find I need to speak quite loudly, I need to see if there is a gain on the back of the deck I dont think there is though. I do have an iPhone and for some reason it sucks over bluetooth so that may be part of it.
2) iPod integration is as expected very good ipod control is similar to the control on a apple tv or similar. Having more lines of display like on the kenwood would have been nice but they have some creative ways of making scrolling quick. I have not tried a USB stick though I assume its going to be similar.
3) The controls are pretty good once you get used to them, I find it feels a little cheap but find that most decks do, This is the opposite of the kenwood with a button for almost everything, having the radio presets is something I thought I would never use but is quite nice. The enter takes a bit of getting used to but is cool as it makes it like using a mouse.
4) SQ is excellent IMO. That is the main reason I purchased this deck based on others recommendations and it doesn't disappoint. I use the listening position adjustment which does auto time alignment based on the some typical car I find it works well. I also purchased the optional tuning mic and found it does a good job for both eq and time alignment, it actually applies changes to your eq's based on what it finds needing adjustment which I thought was cool.
Pretty sure the Eq is 7 band parametric
I am also using the built in amp and although you have to turn it up to 75% for listening it sounds good, I dont go too loud but very little to no distortion and I am happy, amp will go in soon enough though (probably 2 way active)
So to copy and modify to my experience
Hi guys, I have been using the Eclipse 5030 for a couple of weeks now. So far, I am having mixed but generally good feelings about it... lol
1) Bluetooth is really great to have. This is an awesome feature. SQ on the Bluetooth is good on my end but tinny on the callers, its also very quiet so I find I need to speak quite loudly, I need to see if there is a gain on the back of the deck I dont think there is though. I do have an iPhone and for some reason it sucks over bluetooth so that may be part of it.
2) iPod integration is as expected very good ipod control is similar to the control on a apple tv or similar. Having more lines of display like on the kenwood would have been nice but they have some creative ways of making scrolling quick. I have not tried a USB stick though I assume its going to be similar.
3) The controls are pretty good once you get used to them, I find it feels a little cheap but find that most decks do, This is the opposite of the kenwood with a button for almost everything, having the radio presets is something I thought I would never use but is quite nice. The enter takes a bit of getting used to but is cool as it makes it like using a mouse.
4) SQ is excellent IMO. That is the main reason I purchased this deck based on others recommendations and it doesn't disappoint. I use the listening position adjustment which does auto time alignment based on the some typical car I find it works well. I also purchased the optional tuning mic and found it does a good job for both eq and time alignment, it actually applies changes to your eq's based on what it finds needing adjustment which I thought was cool.
Pretty sure the Eq is 7 band parametric
I am also using the built in amp and although you have to turn it up to 75% for listening it sounds good, I dont go too loud but very little to no distortion and I am happy, amp will go in soon enough though (probably 2 way active)
11-13-2009, 12:09 AM
#29
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 20
It is a Fluke 43B. It is not the most accurate model, but it did the trick. The specs say it is good for ±3%, but it seemed to read better than that...
When I re-scoped the deck at mid to high volumes, it did get better than at low volumes, which is unusual I would think. It read as low as 0.5% at max volume. I rechecked at volume 15 and the distortion was higher. Maybe the internal amp is a class D?
I have known that the internal amplifiers aren't great, but this proves to me that next install (or perhaps sooner) I am going to have to get a good quality multichannel amp.
I shouldn't complain though, the deck is really nice. Everyone else thinks it sounds great...
The X1R amp read 0.3% at 120 W output. This is probably as low as the Fluke would read. I would be interested to see how this meter would hold up against a proper audio analyzer.
When I re-scoped the deck at mid to high volumes, it did get better than at low volumes, which is unusual I would think. It read as low as 0.5% at max volume. I rechecked at volume 15 and the distortion was higher. Maybe the internal amp is a class D?
I have known that the internal amplifiers aren't great, but this proves to me that next install (or perhaps sooner) I am going to have to get a good quality multichannel amp.
I shouldn't complain though, the deck is really nice. Everyone else thinks it sounds great...
The X1R amp read 0.3% at 120 W output. This is probably as low as the Fluke would read. I would be interested to see how this meter would hold up against a proper audio analyzer.
11-13-2009, 12:38 AM
#30
that is odd, is it possible that the noise is from a low input signal at the lower volumes its probably coming right out of the DAC to the internal amp? I doubt that it would be a class D but who knows.
What do you do for a living that you have that meter for? (I checked it out you can almost pay a years tuition for the cost of the meter)
What do you do for a living that you have that meter for? (I checked it out you can almost pay a years tuition for the cost of the meter)
