Larger variety of drivers in USA? seems so...
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Prolifik
these are not even car audio companies, more like marketing and distribution companies. they dont assemble the product and rarely design it. simply buy a design or have something manufactured from available parts. i even doubt much of R&D gets put into this, look how similar most of these brands are. not to knock them or anything, some of the products are indeed very nice peices. it is interesting tho that you dont hear about them after a while, many of these brands come and go, while the product itself is all similar. all it takes for it to sell is some hype, looks and a positive comparison to some already existing product that is perceived to be good.
another problem with these brand names is that they are very easy to copy due to the fact that it is built from available parts and un original designs........in the end the best product that stays in for the long run is the one with the original design.......good example is DD who does their own R&D, build and marketing.....the product simply speaks for itself, no hype needed.
on the flip side something original is harder and more expensive to maintain.....reconing for example or amp repair. with DD that's an adventure with a price tag..........$300+ for a recone.
meanwhile with all those brands its easy and cheap......it doesnt matter if you have a Shocker Extreme sub from 4 years ago, you can get it reconed with FI Audio (less than a year old company) soft parts.......after all parts for both brands came from the same parts builder.......as it does for the other 10 brands...........means cheaper and quicker........your 4 year old Shocker Extreme recone from FI Audio..........$70 bux.
someone on here will probably try to tell me different but all i tell you before u even start is that i dont care what u read on some forum about some 'next best thing' sub or amp, go back to readin that forum. i've met and spoken with people in person who create, 'design', and sell parts and products as well as people who use them
'gday
another problem with these brand names is that they are very easy to copy due to the fact that it is built from available parts and un original designs........in the end the best product that stays in for the long run is the one with the original design.......good example is DD who does their own R&D, build and marketing.....the product simply speaks for itself, no hype needed.
on the flip side something original is harder and more expensive to maintain.....reconing for example or amp repair. with DD that's an adventure with a price tag..........$300+ for a recone.
meanwhile with all those brands its easy and cheap......it doesnt matter if you have a Shocker Extreme sub from 4 years ago, you can get it reconed with FI Audio (less than a year old company) soft parts.......after all parts for both brands came from the same parts builder.......as it does for the other 10 brands...........means cheaper and quicker........your 4 year old Shocker Extreme recone from FI Audio..........$70 bux.
someone on here will probably try to tell me different but all i tell you before u even start is that i dont care what u read on some forum about some 'next best thing' sub or amp, go back to readin that forum. i've met and spoken with people in person who create, 'design', and sell parts and products as well as people who use them
'gday
What is your opinion of Alpine's F1 line? The speakers are built by Morel with widely available parts.
In the world of audio, there are very very few companies that do something exclusive or original. Look at how many companies use Venezuelan or 12 Spoke baskets. Does using either of those baskets warrant calling them a marketing company? At what point has a company done something original enough for you that you are willing to call them an audio company.
Since you brought up Scott and the team at Fi, did you know that they do their own assembly? Scott has designed every single sub they make himself (I think he said he uses FEA, but don't quote me on that). They do the machining. When someone asks for a recone, he doesn't just throw in a Q or SSD or something similar soft parts. He takes the individual parts he has available and puts together a product appropriate for that motor.
Soundsplinter uses TC Sounds as a buildhouse, as many companies have and still do. Does that make Soundsplinter a marketing company?
If you don't like the product, that's fine, but give a company a little bit of credit for goodness sake. I think you may be unfamiliar with the practices of the companies that have been mentioned so far in this thread, or else maybe you're talking about someone else?
Kudos to DD: they have built strong SPL machines. However, they are not the be all and end all of subwoofers.
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by gleepoy
I agree with Neil.
On a side note...aren't the Alpine F#1 drivers made by Scan-Speak?
On a side note...aren't the Alpine F#1 drivers made by Scan-Speak?
My point remains the same though.
--SPECIAL ED--
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 26
If DD actually does charge $300 for a recone kit, they sure are making good margin. Even at $70, there's a good margin...
Alpine has used build houses for as long as I can remember. Nothing that Alpine sells speaker-wise is their own anymore. Doesn't mean they are bad products that should be shunned tho...
Infinity used Tonegen for years with their "exclusive" driver designs - EMIT, EMIM, Watkins, the list goes on...
Best,
Mark
Alpine has used build houses for as long as I can remember. Nothing that Alpine sells speaker-wise is their own anymore. Doesn't mean they are bad products that should be shunned tho...
Infinity used Tonegen for years with their "exclusive" driver designs - EMIT, EMIM, Watkins, the list goes on...
Best,
Mark
there we go, someone is telling me different.
yay for sound spliter using tc sound parts, i never hard of sound splinter. i have no opinion on alpine F1, i dont use alpine. hey did u know soundstream big amp is the same board as the lanzar amp.....just 3 times the price. is that bad for soundstream or good for lanzar?
yay for sound spliter using tc sound parts, i never hard of sound splinter. i have no opinion on alpine F1, i dont use alpine. hey did u know soundstream big amp is the same board as the lanzar amp.....just 3 times the price. is that bad for soundstream or good for lanzar?
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Prolifik
hey did u know soundstream big amp is the same board as the lanzar amp.....just 3 times the price. is that bad for soundstream or good for lanzar?
No offense, but you haven't provided a single situation where the company is not doing R&D or are doing something outside of normal practice in the audio world. It seems that you want to pick a bone that doesn't exist, only because the companies do not have the capital to custom tool every driver they make and have buildhouses do it instead (which is standard practice and has been for a very long time).
I'm sure you are very happy with DD, which is great, but I just don't see any substantial validity to your claims nor do I see any logical deduction, and that is the skin and bones of my viewpoint.
Administrator
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,860
Yuli is completely correct. My opinion differs slightly in that I believe that a 'real' speaker company doesn't have to manufacture their product, but it does have to be proprietary. For instance, back in the day when Stillwater Designs came out with Kicker they didn't build anything, but their woofers were their own unique design. JL started that way too. And from what I gather, a more recent company would be RE - sounds like they rely on a build house but their designs are their own.
I lend those companies more credit than ones that order Super Blammo Woofer #16C42-4 and have a dustcap made for it.
A blurred line would be a company that selects FrameA, Magnet 104, and Cone assembly 2C out of a catalog and then sells it. Sure, it may be somewhat unique (although totally duplicatable) but that's still shopping IMO, not engineering.
I lend those companies more credit than ones that order Super Blammo Woofer #16C42-4 and have a dustcap made for it.
A blurred line would be a company that selects FrameA, Magnet 104, and Cone assembly 2C out of a catalog and then sells it. Sure, it may be somewhat unique (although totally duplicatable) but that's still shopping IMO, not engineering.
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Dukk
Yuli is completely correct. My opinion differs slightly in that I believe that a 'real' speaker company doesn't have to manufacture their product, but it does have to be proprietary. For instance, back in the day when Stillwater Designs came out with Kicker they didn't build anything, but their woofers were their own unique design. JL started that way too. And from what I gather, a more recent company would be RE - sounds like they rely on a build house but their designs are their own.
I lend those companies more credit than ones that order Super Blammo Woofer #16C42-4 and have a dustcap made for it.
A blurred line would be a company that selects FrameA, Magnet 104, and Cone assembly 2C out of a catalog and then sells it. Sure, it may be somewhat unique (although totally duplicatable) but that's still shopping IMO, not engineering.
I lend those companies more credit than ones that order Super Blammo Woofer #16C42-4 and have a dustcap made for it.
A blurred line would be a company that selects FrameA, Magnet 104, and Cone assembly 2C out of a catalog and then sells it. Sure, it may be somewhat unique (although totally duplicatable) but that's still shopping IMO, not engineering.
1. Fi Car Audio
2. Adire Audio
3. Resonant Engineering
4. Stereo Integrity
5. Ascendant Audio
6. Incriminator Audio
Some of these companies build their own products as well, while others have them done in a buildhouse.
And even if they did not engineer their own products, I don't understand why you would dismiss a company.
yah thats why 99% of the parts on those products are interchangable. yes i have seen and done it myself. go back to reading whatever forum it is you are reading and ask them to what degree they 'engeneered' their product.
no one dismissed a company, perhaps u need to re read my original post. i didnt knock any company or put anyone down. i simply stated that they buy existing parts and designs and make their own 'product'.
quality of parts........try same build house for the soundstream/lanzar boards......tested to do exact the same spl. im not knocking anything here, just stating the fact.
no one dismissed a company, perhaps u need to re read my original post. i didnt knock any company or put anyone down. i simply stated that they buy existing parts and designs and make their own 'product'.
quality of parts........try same build house for the soundstream/lanzar boards......tested to do exact the same spl. im not knocking anything here, just stating the fact.
I also side with both Yuli and Paul on this one. In the 20 years I have been at this the sheer number of companies that are here today and gone tomorrow or morphed into something else is totally absurd. I tend to also put more weight behind people that have spent the $ engineering something as compared to picking out of a catolog and hoping for the best or copying someone else. Notice the lack of patents on products from brand of the month to brand of the month, I wonder why.....
