First impressions of Nakamichi CD-400
10-16-2003, 05:17 PM
#1
500 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 756
Well, I was finally able to install my nak. I've had it in my closet for a while now (its painful knowing its there, and not in my dash) [img]smile.gif[/img]
Installation was a breeze, No huge DC/DC converters and external RCA cables like my older alpine 7894. Fit in the dashboard beautifully. It blends in very nicely in the EL. It resembles the stock deck at a distance, so should be good from a security point of view.
The feel of the controls is amazing, very high quality. It is plastic, but the feel of the rotary encoder and the buttons is very nice and solid. The display is bright, but not overly distracting. (not as bright as my alpine). The amber backlighting looks classy, and matches my dash nicely.
Right now, I have a fairly stock setup in my car. Only a pair of ID coaxials in my front doors. All of my other gear is sitting in my closet. (not sure if I should bother installing it as winter is quickly approaching).
The sound quality was astounding, even considering what I have in there right now. There is a huge improvement in the sound. I can hear very subtle sounds, and the 24bit dac really brings out the life in the music. CDs I has listened to for months suddenly had a whole new feeling to them. I am certainly impressed. It makes me very tempted to throw my Xtant into the car and install my kick panels [img]smile.gif[/img] I have to control myself.
Anyways, I'm going to go listen to some of my other CDs, so I'll write more later [img]smile.gif[/img]
By far, the best deck I have ever owned. If anyone was considering it, I highly recommend it.
Installation was a breeze, No huge DC/DC converters and external RCA cables like my older alpine 7894. Fit in the dashboard beautifully. It blends in very nicely in the EL. It resembles the stock deck at a distance, so should be good from a security point of view.
The feel of the controls is amazing, very high quality. It is plastic, but the feel of the rotary encoder and the buttons is very nice and solid. The display is bright, but not overly distracting. (not as bright as my alpine). The amber backlighting looks classy, and matches my dash nicely.
Right now, I have a fairly stock setup in my car. Only a pair of ID coaxials in my front doors. All of my other gear is sitting in my closet. (not sure if I should bother installing it as winter is quickly approaching).
The sound quality was astounding, even considering what I have in there right now. There is a huge improvement in the sound. I can hear very subtle sounds, and the 24bit dac really brings out the life in the music. CDs I has listened to for months suddenly had a whole new feeling to them. I am certainly impressed. It makes me very tempted to throw my Xtant into the car and install my kick panels [img]smile.gif[/img] I have to control myself.
Anyways, I'm going to go listen to some of my other CDs, so I'll write more later [img]smile.gif[/img]
By far, the best deck I have ever owned. If anyone was considering it, I highly recommend it.
10-17-2003, 11:34 AM
#6
500 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 756
Have you heard the 45z? It is a beautiful sounding head unit.. One of the nicest out there. Sure they look plain, made out of plastic, and they may even have JVC mechanisims [img]smile.gif[/img] but that doesn't change the fact that they have won countless competitions.
Im sure there are other higher end HUs out there (not just nakamichi) that have common components in them. It does not necessarily make them unreliable, or poor sounding in any respect.
Im sure there are other higher end HUs out there (not just nakamichi) that have common components in them. It does not necessarily make them unreliable, or poor sounding in any respect.
10-17-2003, 12:28 PM
#7
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 550
I'd wager that the factory deck (when used in conjuction with a high quality LOC - BTW, the CD deck that came in your Acura is made by Alpine), would sound every bit as good as the CD-45 or even the CD-400.
I would even go so far to say that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind comparison between the two.
Check out what Dave Navone was able to do with a stock Delco deck. Run a search on Car Sound.
The Nak units have never lived up to their rep as quality units... You've made the JVC internals a non-issue but in fact it is an issue as the CD-45 has been known to have problems with the CD mechanism. Guess what...those JVC units also had the same problem (which they did fix with the last generation of decks...).
Nak is fraction of what it used to be...Their success with the CD-45 and other is only do to the fact that the deck "looks" like its a high end unit... To add to that, it was the only deck on the market that looked "normal". When the CD-45z was released...I wanted one pretty bad but to think that $600 CDN would get me a deck with the same parts as a $300 JVC would be nonsense.
Looking at your sig... I noticed that you have an Audio Control preamp. Why the preamp? If the CD-400 is so great then you really don't need the preamp. Try this...pull the CD-400 and run the stock CD with the preamp...I believe the 4.1 has an LOC build in... Listen and listen honestly...You may surprise yourself...
I would even go so far to say that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind comparison between the two.
Check out what Dave Navone was able to do with a stock Delco deck. Run a search on Car Sound.
The Nak units have never lived up to their rep as quality units... You've made the JVC internals a non-issue but in fact it is an issue as the CD-45 has been known to have problems with the CD mechanism. Guess what...those JVC units also had the same problem (which they did fix with the last generation of decks...).
Nak is fraction of what it used to be...Their success with the CD-45 and other is only do to the fact that the deck "looks" like its a high end unit... To add to that, it was the only deck on the market that looked "normal". When the CD-45z was released...I wanted one pretty bad but to think that $600 CDN would get me a deck with the same parts as a $300 JVC would be nonsense.
Looking at your sig... I noticed that you have an Audio Control preamp. Why the preamp? If the CD-400 is so great then you really don't need the preamp. Try this...pull the CD-400 and run the stock CD with the preamp...I believe the 4.1 has an LOC build in... Listen and listen honestly...You may surprise yourself...
10-17-2003, 05:37 PM
#8
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,770
if you like jvc stuff all the power to you
it shocked me to see it in there
its like buying a lamborguini and finding komo tires on it or finding that your dynaudio cabanets use motorola pizo tweeters
a little lame in my books
im not one who says this is better than that and jvc in not something i would ever own
it shocked me to see it in there
its like buying a lamborguini and finding komo tires on it or finding that your dynaudio cabanets use motorola pizo tweeters
a little lame in my books
im not one who says this is better than that and jvc in not something i would ever own
10-17-2003, 06:26 PM
#9
500 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 756
Pinhead:
That kind of sucks about the JVC mechanisms, I never knew that about the decks. I’m not sure about the new models like the CD-400, hopefully they learned from their mistakes. It’s certainly not something you want to hear AFTER you buy one J. I’m not saying that I like JVC by any means, I was actually pretty shocked to hear that. I always thought of nak as a kind of purist name, and surely wouldn’t have expected to see something like that in Nak’s high-end player. I’m not sure if the CD-400 has any of the cheaper components in it, although it probably wouldn’t surprise me a great deal as they are in financial trouble and doing some restructuring.
Mqqball:
Even though my stock deck sounds pretty good, and could supply an amplifier with a somewhat clean signal utilizing a LOC, other components in my setup would not perform to their potential. Regardless of the LOC, the signal quality is still limited by the poorer THD and S/N ratio of the output line (which is always much higher than that on the preamp line, often over 100+ times higher). Stock decks usually do not have exceptional output stages, they produce noise and in some cases colour the music in some respects. I doubt there would be linearity at varying volume levels either. The bottom line is that these decks were not designed to be used with external amplifiers. I paid a fair bit for my amp, and want to take advantage of the great specifications it has by sending it the cleanest signal I can (0.04% THD @20-20,000Hz, >110db S/N etc, >200 damping @100Hz). I honestly do not believe this would be possible by utilizing the output stage of a stock deck, even assuming the LOC does not reduce the signal quality in any way). I agree that many people would not be able to tell the difference, but to me, I simply don’t want anything in my system creating performance bottlenecks. The nak really was not all that expensive, and even though I could have used the stock deck and saved some money, it kinda made sense for me to go this route. As far as clean signals are concerned, I don’t think you can get much truer to life than what the nak offers. (24bit DACs, 0.005% THD@1khz) I had never heard the cd-400 before buying it, but a good friend of mine has a cd-45z which I have heard on many occasions, and liked very much. Despite mentions of the cheap parts used in some nak products, I’m quite happy with the unit so far, it sounds terrific, I like the look and feel of it, and it suits my needs quite well. Just hope it lasts J
I know there is much more to good sound than the specifications of an amp/hu. I’m not an audio professional in any respect, but I am certainly an enthusiast. I don’t know about that blind-fold test, although it would certainly be interesting to see, not just my own results, but others as well. I’d be curious to see just who would be able to tell the difference. It would be pretty cool if two identical systems could be setup, one with a stock deck/output converter and one with a good quality deck, and pre-outs.
As far as the preamp is concerned, The main reason I got the 4.1i was (aside from getting a great deal on it) it’s line driving capabilities. Again, it comes down to creating a system that properly utilizes the potential of other connected components. My 603x can accept up to a 9V rms unbalanced input, and the 4.1i can deliver a signal of that calibre. Sure, I’m pleased with the nakamichi, but there are not many decks out there with an output signal of that level. It has 4V outs, but even that level is likely less than three volts RMS. The 4.1i does not have a LOC. I believe the three.1 does though. Its always nice to have some control in the drivers seat as well, so I think it should complement the deck quite nicely, both functionally and cosmetically.
Btw, I know many Honda/acura cars use Alpine decks, mine however is a Matsu****a unit. I believe the 99-00 EL uses them. I think the older 97-98 Els have the Alpines.
I know I wrote a lot there, hope everyone got through it [img]smile.gif[/img]
Mike
That kind of sucks about the JVC mechanisms, I never knew that about the decks. I’m not sure about the new models like the CD-400, hopefully they learned from their mistakes. It’s certainly not something you want to hear AFTER you buy one J. I’m not saying that I like JVC by any means, I was actually pretty shocked to hear that. I always thought of nak as a kind of purist name, and surely wouldn’t have expected to see something like that in Nak’s high-end player. I’m not sure if the CD-400 has any of the cheaper components in it, although it probably wouldn’t surprise me a great deal as they are in financial trouble and doing some restructuring.
Mqqball:
Even though my stock deck sounds pretty good, and could supply an amplifier with a somewhat clean signal utilizing a LOC, other components in my setup would not perform to their potential. Regardless of the LOC, the signal quality is still limited by the poorer THD and S/N ratio of the output line (which is always much higher than that on the preamp line, often over 100+ times higher). Stock decks usually do not have exceptional output stages, they produce noise and in some cases colour the music in some respects. I doubt there would be linearity at varying volume levels either. The bottom line is that these decks were not designed to be used with external amplifiers. I paid a fair bit for my amp, and want to take advantage of the great specifications it has by sending it the cleanest signal I can (0.04% THD @20-20,000Hz, >110db S/N etc, >200 damping @100Hz). I honestly do not believe this would be possible by utilizing the output stage of a stock deck, even assuming the LOC does not reduce the signal quality in any way). I agree that many people would not be able to tell the difference, but to me, I simply don’t want anything in my system creating performance bottlenecks. The nak really was not all that expensive, and even though I could have used the stock deck and saved some money, it kinda made sense for me to go this route. As far as clean signals are concerned, I don’t think you can get much truer to life than what the nak offers. (24bit DACs, 0.005% THD@1khz) I had never heard the cd-400 before buying it, but a good friend of mine has a cd-45z which I have heard on many occasions, and liked very much. Despite mentions of the cheap parts used in some nak products, I’m quite happy with the unit so far, it sounds terrific, I like the look and feel of it, and it suits my needs quite well. Just hope it lasts J
I know there is much more to good sound than the specifications of an amp/hu. I’m not an audio professional in any respect, but I am certainly an enthusiast. I don’t know about that blind-fold test, although it would certainly be interesting to see, not just my own results, but others as well. I’d be curious to see just who would be able to tell the difference. It would be pretty cool if two identical systems could be setup, one with a stock deck/output converter and one with a good quality deck, and pre-outs.
As far as the preamp is concerned, The main reason I got the 4.1i was (aside from getting a great deal on it) it’s line driving capabilities. Again, it comes down to creating a system that properly utilizes the potential of other connected components. My 603x can accept up to a 9V rms unbalanced input, and the 4.1i can deliver a signal of that calibre. Sure, I’m pleased with the nakamichi, but there are not many decks out there with an output signal of that level. It has 4V outs, but even that level is likely less than three volts RMS. The 4.1i does not have a LOC. I believe the three.1 does though. Its always nice to have some control in the drivers seat as well, so I think it should complement the deck quite nicely, both functionally and cosmetically.
Btw, I know many Honda/acura cars use Alpine decks, mine however is a Matsu****a unit. I believe the 99-00 EL uses them. I think the older 97-98 Els have the Alpines.
I know I wrote a lot there, hope everyone got through it [img]smile.gif[/img]
Mike
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