Need your help and opinion with SQ setup
12-01-2007, 05:39 PM
#31
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
Thanks for the answer..
Just to know, what freq range is basically called mid-bass? Because the sub I am buying has a freq response upto 200 Hz, should I not just cross it over to 200 Hz, and play the fronts from there?
Just to know, what freq range is basically called mid-bass? Because the sub I am buying has a freq response upto 200 Hz, should I not just cross it over to 200 Hz, and play the fronts from there?
12-01-2007, 08:21 PM
#32
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 13
again?
i told ya to forgot about those numbers, trust your ears, for sure, the 4" are not a wise choice to reproduce mid bass section, but still using the 6x9 will pull the stage to the back, in you car you not have a choice.
Your doors can't accommodate any speakers at all.
This text is taken from the JL Audio website
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=147
So, the thing is not only go by numbers, you have to put time and effort making the box, thats the next step, the design, I think a 10" is kinda big for your car, but depending on the box it will take the transition very well.
In this situation you will sacrifice headroom, because lower the cut on the 4 inchers, lower the power they will manage.
You already have a 4ch amplifier, why, in the name of God you got another one? your electrical system is no bigger than a power wheels barbie jeep, no offense...
I prefer always more power, but if you have a very small and weak electrical system, just use one 4 ch amplifier. Invest on 2 or 3 sub boxes for your sub, if your sub can handle ported make one, i do not recommend that 'cos lack of space. I think thats your only car, and you will need every inch in there.
Anyways first try with just one amp, you can go with the HU settings for the xover points, but i will choose the settings on the amplifier. The transition in a cabin like yours is not that difficult, you have to have in count the cabin gain, the bump on 40hz region so u can go with a small sealed box.
You never told us how you mount your 4", thats important.
so happy testing
cheers gonps
i told ya to forgot about those numbers, trust your ears, for sure, the 4" are not a wise choice to reproduce mid bass section, but still using the 6x9 will pull the stage to the back, in you car you not have a choice.
Your doors can't accommodate any speakers at all.
Midbass transition
For sub-bass to sound natural, the system must have good midbass capability as well. These two are interrelated because harmonic components of the sounds produced by instruments that play in the sub-bass range must be accurately reproduced in the mid-bass range for a system to sound accurate.
In car audio, we normally don't have the luxury of using very large drivers to reproduce midbass. For this reason, the ability of a subwoofer system to smoothly transition to the mid-bass region becomes very important to achieving top-notch fidelity.
The sealed and ported enclosures, because the speakers play directly into the listening environment usually produce the smoothest midbass transition. Wide bandwidth bandpass designs are a little more ragged, but still deliver good midbass reinforcement. The narrow bandwidth bandpass designs can create serious problems because their high-frequency roll-off can begin as low as 75-80 Hz and the amplitude of their response peaks is very high, which necessitates the use of larger, very capable midbass speakers in order to blend smoothly with the sub-bass.
For sub-bass to sound natural, the system must have good midbass capability as well. These two are interrelated because harmonic components of the sounds produced by instruments that play in the sub-bass range must be accurately reproduced in the mid-bass range for a system to sound accurate.
In car audio, we normally don't have the luxury of using very large drivers to reproduce midbass. For this reason, the ability of a subwoofer system to smoothly transition to the mid-bass region becomes very important to achieving top-notch fidelity.
The sealed and ported enclosures, because the speakers play directly into the listening environment usually produce the smoothest midbass transition. Wide bandwidth bandpass designs are a little more ragged, but still deliver good midbass reinforcement. The narrow bandwidth bandpass designs can create serious problems because their high-frequency roll-off can begin as low as 75-80 Hz and the amplitude of their response peaks is very high, which necessitates the use of larger, very capable midbass speakers in order to blend smoothly with the sub-bass.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=147
So, the thing is not only go by numbers, you have to put time and effort making the box, thats the next step, the design, I think a 10" is kinda big for your car, but depending on the box it will take the transition very well.
In this situation you will sacrifice headroom, because lower the cut on the 4 inchers, lower the power they will manage.
You already have a 4ch amplifier, why, in the name of God you got another one? your electrical system is no bigger than a power wheels barbie jeep, no offense...
I prefer always more power, but if you have a very small and weak electrical system, just use one 4 ch amplifier. Invest on 2 or 3 sub boxes for your sub, if your sub can handle ported make one, i do not recommend that 'cos lack of space. I think thats your only car, and you will need every inch in there.
Anyways first try with just one amp, you can go with the HU settings for the xover points, but i will choose the settings on the amplifier. The transition in a cabin like yours is not that difficult, you have to have in count the cabin gain, the bump on 40hz region so u can go with a small sealed box.
You never told us how you mount your 4", thats important.
so happy testing
cheers gonps
12-02-2007, 05:50 AM
#33
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
The 4" are mounted in the dash on the sides, in the stock locations. The tweeters are at the bottom of the A pillars. The 4" woofers are mounted open, which means they do not have sealed box enclosures.
From what I understand, you suggest that I remove the 6x9 rears? and use the exisitng amp to powet the sub?
From what I understand, you suggest that I remove the 6x9 rears? and use the exisitng amp to powet the sub?
12-02-2007, 05:53 AM
#34
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 52
Midbass is 500hz-80Hz, but in common practical use, most would never play a midbass that high in their car. I wouldn't suggest playing your sub all the way up to 200, even if is the frequency response, it really takes a different kind of driver to be able to get away with doing that and having it sound any good.
12-02-2007, 08:17 AM
#35
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 13
YES, do that...
by far trebor is right, but as i told you before, get rid of the 6x9, use only one amplifier, and try try to seal the back of the 4", for a start just use the passive networks, and the amplifier onboard xover for the sub start cutting the sub at 80hz...
try build your boxes according the owners manual if u want to experiment is alright u can go 20% smaller o bigger on the sealed one, but for the ported (not recommended for an atos due to space) just use 1 sub ok? in many countries smart guys sometimes try to sell you a pair of subs.
and stick with what u have theres no way u can put midbass on the doors, or in a kick panel, well probably underneath ur dash, that will take skillls, and a second amplifier.
U can try using your beloved 6x9, just cut one wire of the tweeter, but i should get rid of it. too much speakers for a small car.
gonps
by far trebor is right, but as i told you before, get rid of the 6x9, use only one amplifier, and try try to seal the back of the 4", for a start just use the passive networks, and the amplifier onboard xover for the sub start cutting the sub at 80hz...
try build your boxes according the owners manual if u want to experiment is alright u can go 20% smaller o bigger on the sealed one, but for the ported (not recommended for an atos due to space) just use 1 sub ok? in many countries smart guys sometimes try to sell you a pair of subs.
and stick with what u have theres no way u can put midbass on the doors, or in a kick panel, well probably underneath ur dash, that will take skillls, and a second amplifier.
U can try using your beloved 6x9, just cut one wire of the tweeter, but i should get rid of it. too much speakers for a small car.
gonps
12-02-2007, 02:45 PM
#36
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
YES, do that...
by far trebor is right, but as i told you before, get rid of the 6x9, use only one amplifier, and try try to seal the back of the 4", for a start just use the passive networks, and the amplifier onboard xover for the sub start cutting the sub at 80hz...
try build your boxes according the owners manual if u want to experiment is alright u can go 20% smaller o bigger on the sealed one, but for the ported (not recommended for an atos due to space) just use 1 sub ok? in many countries smart guys sometimes try to sell you a pair of subs.
and stick with what u have theres no way u can put midbass on the doors, or in a kick panel, well probably underneath ur dash, that will take skillls, and a second amplifier.
U can try using your beloved 6x9, just cut one wire of the tweeter, but i should get rid of it. too much speakers for a small car.
gonps
by far trebor is right, but as i told you before, get rid of the 6x9, use only one amplifier, and try try to seal the back of the 4", for a start just use the passive networks, and the amplifier onboard xover for the sub start cutting the sub at 80hz...
try build your boxes according the owners manual if u want to experiment is alright u can go 20% smaller o bigger on the sealed one, but for the ported (not recommended for an atos due to space) just use 1 sub ok? in many countries smart guys sometimes try to sell you a pair of subs.
and stick with what u have theres no way u can put midbass on the doors, or in a kick panel, well probably underneath ur dash, that will take skillls, and a second amplifier.
U can try using your beloved 6x9, just cut one wire of the tweeter, but i should get rid of it. too much speakers for a small car.
gonps
Anyway im going to get it done tomorrow for sure. i just hope the change to a sub does not disappoint me.
12-02-2007, 09:37 PM
#37
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 13
well audio is an subjective appreciation matter, i can tell you many different things, let me describe my system for you:
HU:eclipse cd5441
Noise gate: Precision Power
Pre amp: Clarion Pro EQ 571
EQ 1: EQL Audiocontrol
EQ 2: DEQ-230 precision power
Amp: Zapco Reference 350 x2
Amp: Zapco Reference 750
TW 1:Q Series MB quart severely attenuated with L-Pads
TW 2
LS Ultimate UR1
MD: DLS 4 inch UP dome mids
MB: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5
SW: DLS REFERENCE Magnesium series 10"
This is a stupidly complex collection of speakers, and eq adjustments, i used SIA Smaart http://www.eaw.com/products/software/index.html, i spent countless hours inside the damn truck, at the end, i think is better to stay as simple as you can, not trying to be a show off, just trying to give you a piece of advice. I'm a control freak...
taking the origin of this, if you like the way your current system sounds, leave it the way it is, but if you are not satisfied, and want to enjoy sq, theres no place for the faint of heart, if you don't like the way it sound with a sub, first, u are so used to hear the 6x9, you are gonna miss them for a few days, then focus on setting your system, and test, and test, and test, this is hell my friend, nobody told ya this is going to be easy.
Grow up, install your sub, enjoy the transition from a boy to men...
gonps
HU:eclipse cd5441
Noise gate: Precision Power
Pre amp: Clarion Pro EQ 571
EQ 1: EQL Audiocontrol
EQ 2: DEQ-230 precision power
Amp: Zapco Reference 350 x2
Amp: Zapco Reference 750
TW 1:Q Series MB quart severely attenuated with L-Pads
TW 2
LS Ultimate UR1MD: DLS 4 inch UP dome mids
MB: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5
SW: DLS REFERENCE Magnesium series 10"
This is a stupidly complex collection of speakers, and eq adjustments, i used SIA Smaart http://www.eaw.com/products/software/index.html, i spent countless hours inside the damn truck, at the end, i think is better to stay as simple as you can, not trying to be a show off, just trying to give you a piece of advice. I'm a control freak...
taking the origin of this, if you like the way your current system sounds, leave it the way it is, but if you are not satisfied, and want to enjoy sq, theres no place for the faint of heart, if you don't like the way it sound with a sub, first, u are so used to hear the 6x9, you are gonna miss them for a few days, then focus on setting your system, and test, and test, and test, this is hell my friend, nobody told ya this is going to be easy.
Grow up, install your sub, enjoy the transition from a boy to men...
gonps
12-03-2007, 12:09 PM
#38
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
Wow. WOW!
I cannot believe what my system sounds like now
Thanks everyone, especially you gonps, for the pressure you gave me into getting a sub. I now have very very good SQ in my car even with the small setup. It sound very realistic and 'warm'. I used the Auto TA and EQ function of my car.
Now, to improve the sound further, what next would you guys recommend?
I cannot believe what my system sounds like now
Thanks everyone, especially you gonps, for the pressure you gave me into getting a sub. I now have very very good SQ in my car
even with the small setup. It sound very realistic and 'warm'. I used the Auto TA and EQ function of my car.Now, to improve the sound further, what next would you guys recommend?
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