Testing....4,5,6
10-21-2004, 03:23 PM
#51
Originally posted by PEI330Ci:
Brandon,
He's got more experience with this stuff than I do, so I'm inclined to at least respect his comments.
Brandon,
He's got more experience with this stuff than I do, so I'm inclined to at least respect his comments.
I've heard many cars that acchieve up front bass using trunk mounted subs. To say that IT DOES NOT HAPPEN would be foolish and wrong.
Just because he's never heard it does not mean it doesn't happen even if he does have more experience with it that you. I'm pretty sure you've heard what were talking about haven't you Adam?
It'd be like Dukk telling me that you cannot achieve imaging from both front seats.
I know what I've heard and just because he's the false audio god
doesn't make him 100% right all the time.Not trying to disrespect winslow, I'm sure he's a pure genius just like the rest of Carsound, but in this case, he's wrong.
10-21-2004, 08:55 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
i have never heard a car with woofers in the back that sound like they come from the front, now like you say i havent heard every vehicle, but have heard many, i would love to hear one though. i really question if its possible for the reasons i initially said but it may be out there.......maybe
10-21-2004, 09:17 PM
#53
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Simple experiment.
Turn OFF the front stage speakers.
Play only the sub in the back.
Where does it sound like it's coming from?
Playing the front stage with rear mounted subs helps mask directional cues that your ears normally use to locate sounds. Keep in mind, that we actually have 3 ears, with our skulls actually forming the 3rd monaurial "ear". The brain compares information absorbed by the skull with information recieved by each ear to extract directional cues. At higher levels, it is possible for a subwoofer to overwelm the information from your ears with high monaurial information being absorbed by your skull. At this point, you will lose imaging at all frequencies.
I think trying my little experiment listed at the top will help people analyse how important an issue this is with their respective system. Every car is different.
In MY car, I'm still able locate the subs.
Adam
Turn OFF the front stage speakers.
Play only the sub in the back.
Where does it sound like it's coming from?
Playing the front stage with rear mounted subs helps mask directional cues that your ears normally use to locate sounds. Keep in mind, that we actually have 3 ears, with our skulls actually forming the 3rd monaurial "ear". The brain compares information absorbed by the skull with information recieved by each ear to extract directional cues. At higher levels, it is possible for a subwoofer to overwelm the information from your ears with high monaurial information being absorbed by your skull. At this point, you will lose imaging at all frequencies.
I think trying my little experiment listed at the top will help people analyse how important an issue this is with their respective system. Every car is different.
In MY car, I'm still able locate the subs.
Adam
10-21-2004, 09:43 PM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Brandon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PEI330Ci:
Brandon,
He's got more experience with this stuff than I do, so I'm inclined to at least respect his comments.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PEI330Ci:
Brandon,
He's got more experience with this stuff than I do, so I'm inclined to at least respect his comments.
I've heard many cars that acchieve up front bass using trunk mounted subs. To say that IT DOES NOT HAPPEN would be foolish and wrong.
Just because he's never heard it does not mean it doesn't happen even if he does have more experience with it that you. I'm pretty sure you've heard what were talking about haven't you Adam?
It'd be like Dukk telling me that you cannot achieve imaging from both front seats.
I know what I've heard and just because he's the false audio god
doesn't make him 100% right all the time.Not trying to disrespect winslow, I'm sure he's a pure genius just like the rest of Carsound, but in this case, he's wrong. </font>[/QUOTE]I always thought you were the false audio god though...??
10-22-2004, 01:31 PM
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
^ No. I got national press on the subject
It'd be like Dukk telling me that you cannot achieve imaging from both front seats.
I know what I've heard and just because he's the false audio god doesn't make him 100% right all the time.
ok now I have a two issues with this paragraph..
1) I would never say that because I believe you can achieve it from both seats. Can you do it better from one seat? Probably but that's too easy
2) Aside from the occasional typo and/or brain fart (like the 2%/4% thing in DS) I AM always right [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]
It'd be like Dukk telling me that you cannot achieve imaging from both front seats.
I know what I've heard and just because he's the false audio god doesn't make him 100% right all the time.
1) I would never say that because I believe you can achieve it from both seats. Can you do it better from one seat? Probably but that's too easy
2) Aside from the occasional typo and/or brain fart (like the 2%/4% thing in DS) I AM always right [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]
10-23-2004, 07:28 PM
#60
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
I think the brain works very hard to decode the direction of sound.
Up until about May of this year I thought sound less than 100 Hz was omnidirectional (everyone said it in the printed media) and I had no reason to disbelieve it. Now I, like many here, am questioning it because I am hearing it in my car (even with the sub xover at 30 HZ). I am not so bold as to assert my theory as fact BUT I think the pressure wave is coming from the rear of the car... banging into your back and the back of your head and arm hairs etc. I think we are simply reacting to the air pressure wave and perceiving the actual location of the sub.
Basically I am agreeing with Adams post for the same reasons.
Up until about May of this year I thought sound less than 100 Hz was omnidirectional (everyone said it in the printed media) and I had no reason to disbelieve it. Now I, like many here, am questioning it because I am hearing it in my car (even with the sub xover at 30 HZ). I am not so bold as to assert my theory as fact BUT I think the pressure wave is coming from the rear of the car... banging into your back and the back of your head and arm hairs etc. I think we are simply reacting to the air pressure wave and perceiving the actual location of the sub.
Basically I am agreeing with Adams post for the same reasons.
