are these good?
03-31-2006, 02:13 PM
#31
Originally Posted by zoomer
Charlie
Your statements are generally tru in terms of capacitors and inductors acting as low pass filters.
But please prove your statements with calculations such as:
How much energy can a 1 farad cap store?
How long can a 1 farad cap sustain 12 volts given a specific current draw?
How much and for how long does a sub amp draw current during bass notes.
In other words, how long can a 1 farad cap supply 50 amperes of current to an amplifyer? How does this time compare to the duration and interval of bass tones.
Some schematic diagrams with numbers for resistance, capacitance, current, time etc would also be usefull.
I do agree that in order to reduce dimming lights, it is better to put a cap in paralel with the headlights. But you missed somehting: the amp will still draw current from the cap instead of the battery because of its lower internal resistance. Now, if you put a diode in series, between the battery and the cap feeding the ligns,it will prevent the amp from draining the cap.
Your statements are generally tru in terms of capacitors and inductors acting as low pass filters.
But please prove your statements with calculations such as:
How much energy can a 1 farad cap store?
How long can a 1 farad cap sustain 12 volts given a specific current draw?
How much and for how long does a sub amp draw current during bass notes.
In other words, how long can a 1 farad cap supply 50 amperes of current to an amplifyer? How does this time compare to the duration and interval of bass tones.
Some schematic diagrams with numbers for resistance, capacitance, current, time etc would also be usefull.
I do agree that in order to reduce dimming lights, it is better to put a cap in paralel with the headlights. But you missed somehting: the amp will still draw current from the cap instead of the battery because of its lower internal resistance. Now, if you put a diode in series, between the battery and the cap feeding the ligns,it will prevent the amp from draining the cap.
Mark
03-31-2006, 03:02 PM
#32
Mark
There is a difference between someone saying " I like the sound of this sub" and "I like this sub because it puts out 150db spl" The first statement is an opinion. Fine, you like what you like and all I can say is that I prefer other speakers and lets have a beer.
The second statement begs the question how do you know?
If you made no measuremnts at all, or cannot show me where you got that information, then you have no right to ask me to disproove your statement. You should not be making the statement at all. If you made a good effort to make measurements, or relied on a reputable source, and I disagree, then I must tell you why, and in the end we should be able to come up with someting that we both agree on. The number may be 150, or 160db, but at least we can have an objective exchange of measuremnt techniques and both of us will come out smarter.
In the case of the caps, no one has made any effort to prove why they would work using sound electrical principles, and I am not just talking about this forum! Until someone does, then we must go with the assumptions that caps dont work. If someone can show me a link to some proof, and I disagree, then I must explain why.
We get real mad when Pyramid claims 1600 watts, when in reality it is 125x2. We expect companies to back their claims with real objective information. The same should hold for any one making claims to a forum. Otherwise we have myths, perpetuated lies, and a whole lot of people wasting money on products that do not do anything.
BTW it will take about 1/10 of a second for a 1 farad cap to discharge from 13 volts to 8 volts with an amp drawing 50 amps. That is about what a 90% efficient class D sub amp will draw when outputing 600 watts peak during a bass note. 1/10 of a second is not very long! There, I did my homework! Now, if anyone disagrees, I would be happy to discuss it. But it is just applying ohms law and RC time constant, and some assumptions that we could have good talk over.
There is a difference between someone saying " I like the sound of this sub" and "I like this sub because it puts out 150db spl" The first statement is an opinion. Fine, you like what you like and all I can say is that I prefer other speakers and lets have a beer.
The second statement begs the question how do you know?
If you made no measuremnts at all, or cannot show me where you got that information, then you have no right to ask me to disproove your statement. You should not be making the statement at all. If you made a good effort to make measurements, or relied on a reputable source, and I disagree, then I must tell you why, and in the end we should be able to come up with someting that we both agree on. The number may be 150, or 160db, but at least we can have an objective exchange of measuremnt techniques and both of us will come out smarter.
In the case of the caps, no one has made any effort to prove why they would work using sound electrical principles, and I am not just talking about this forum! Until someone does, then we must go with the assumptions that caps dont work. If someone can show me a link to some proof, and I disagree, then I must explain why.
We get real mad when Pyramid claims 1600 watts, when in reality it is 125x2. We expect companies to back their claims with real objective information. The same should hold for any one making claims to a forum. Otherwise we have myths, perpetuated lies, and a whole lot of people wasting money on products that do not do anything.
BTW it will take about 1/10 of a second for a 1 farad cap to discharge from 13 volts to 8 volts with an amp drawing 50 amps. That is about what a 90% efficient class D sub amp will draw when outputing 600 watts peak during a bass note. 1/10 of a second is not very long! There, I did my homework! Now, if anyone disagrees, I would be happy to discuss it. But it is just applying ohms law and RC time constant, and some assumptions that we could have good talk over.
03-31-2006, 03:44 PM
#33
Originally Posted by zoomer
Mark
There is a difference between someone saying " I like the sound of this sub" and "I like this sub because it puts out 150db spl" The first statement is an opinion. Fine, you like what you like and all I can say is that I prefer other speakers and lets have a beer.
The second statement begs the question how do you know?
If you made no measuremnts at all, or cannot show me where you got that information, then you have no right to ask me to disproove your statement. You should not be making the statement at all. If you made a good effort to make measurements, or relied on a reputable source, and I disagree, then I must tell you why, and in the end we should be able to come up with someting that we both agree on. The number may be 150, or 160db, but at least we can have an objective exchange of measuremnt techniques and both of us will come out smarter.
In the case of the caps, no one has made any effort to prove why they would work using sound electrical principles, and I am not just talking about this forum! Until someone does, then we must go with the assumptions that caps dont work. If someone can show me a link to some proof, and I disagree, then I must explain why.
We get real mad when Pyramid claims 1600 watts, when in reality it is 125x2. We expect companies to back their claims with real objective information. The same should hold for any one making claims to a forum. Otherwise we have myths, perpetuated lies, and a whole lot of people wasting money on products that do not do anything.
BTW it will take about 1/10 of a second for a 1 farad cap to discharge from 13 volts to 8 volts with an amp drawing 50 amps. That is about what a 90% efficient class D sub amp will draw when outputing 600 watts peak during a bass note. 1/10 of a second is not very long! There, I did my homework! Now, if anyone disagrees, I would be happy to discuss it. But it is just applying ohms law and RC time constant, and some assumptions that we could have good talk over.
There is a difference between someone saying " I like the sound of this sub" and "I like this sub because it puts out 150db spl" The first statement is an opinion. Fine, you like what you like and all I can say is that I prefer other speakers and lets have a beer.
The second statement begs the question how do you know?
If you made no measuremnts at all, or cannot show me where you got that information, then you have no right to ask me to disproove your statement. You should not be making the statement at all. If you made a good effort to make measurements, or relied on a reputable source, and I disagree, then I must tell you why, and in the end we should be able to come up with someting that we both agree on. The number may be 150, or 160db, but at least we can have an objective exchange of measuremnt techniques and both of us will come out smarter.
In the case of the caps, no one has made any effort to prove why they would work using sound electrical principles, and I am not just talking about this forum! Until someone does, then we must go with the assumptions that caps dont work. If someone can show me a link to some proof, and I disagree, then I must explain why.
We get real mad when Pyramid claims 1600 watts, when in reality it is 125x2. We expect companies to back their claims with real objective information. The same should hold for any one making claims to a forum. Otherwise we have myths, perpetuated lies, and a whole lot of people wasting money on products that do not do anything.
BTW it will take about 1/10 of a second for a 1 farad cap to discharge from 13 volts to 8 volts with an amp drawing 50 amps. That is about what a 90% efficient class D sub amp will draw when outputing 600 watts peak during a bass note. 1/10 of a second is not very long! There, I did my homework! Now, if anyone disagrees, I would be happy to discuss it. But it is just applying ohms law and RC time constant, and some assumptions that we could have good talk over.
Mark
Mark
03-31-2006, 07:33 PM
#34
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 50
if there is a will there is way
i bought a pyramid amp once, was tottally disapointed, and i bought it cause a friend had one, and his car was pounding. well come to find out his dad was an computer repair person and had taken the amp and did a little reconfigging, changed the power supply and and a couple of the ic, $120 bucks later had an amp of monumentuos occasion. was supposed be a 1000 watt amp but was really doing 1300 watts.
so if he really want, the basic componets are there just needs a little help.
so if he really want, the basic componets are there just needs a little help.
03-31-2006, 11:05 PM
#35
Originally Posted by zoomer
Why do you consider a objective, data, and research based discussion to be pointless. By making your statement about caps curing dimming lights, you are perpetuating the myth. If anyone has an extra $100 lying around there are better ways to spend it than buying a cap.
The discussion is pointless to me because I've heard it go 'round and round' for the last couple of decades. I'm not perpetuating any myth....the 'myth' is that they are a cure, my statement was that it would help.....
You are so -retentive about being absolutely right that you seem to lose the ability to read.....in the first post in this thread, the poster stated that he already owns this equipment....my response was based on that fact. I have never put down anyone on a public forum for buying the "wrong stuff", especially when it comes to the "new guys". I can still remember putting my first system in my 1973 Maverick and having some guy who worked at a local shop crap on the stuff I put in my car. I didn't expect to win a championship with it, but it sounded a lot better to me than the factory radio that was in there....
I stand by my statement that given his particular situation, he could expect a fairly predictable result. Nothing more, nothing less.Even if every single fact, theory or speculation by you on the merit of caps is correct, if the original poster hooks up his amp, cap and subs, he will get more bass than he had before he did it. Did the new guy need the cap?.....probably not.....would he benefit more from doing the big 3 first??....probably....assuming the amp actually draws enough current to stress the car's electrical system in the first place....
If he installs it all and likes the way it looks in his car, then he got his money's worth for the cap. Even if it doesn't do everything he was told before he bought it, so what??....it's no money out of your pocket, he will be a better educated customer the next time he goes shopping, and in the meantime he gets to listen to something that sounds a lot better than whatever was in there before.....sheeesh.
There are a lot of people who come here to read, learn and have fun with car audio. I am one of them, and everytime I help someone achieve better sound, I still feel good about it. I find the spirit of community, the level of polite behavior and the friendly banter back and forth between people who have been posting here and on other boards for many years in the past to be a refreshing change from the hyper-critical responses on other car audio sites.
At this point this thread has more than answered the original posters questions....
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