electrical question
02-02-2009, 11:36 AM
#1
electrical question
Ok so I know there have been posts asking this before, I've been a part of them myself, but it still baffles me (get it?)
Anyways, I keep hearing that installing a second battery is one of the better ways to aide my electrical system, I would guess second to the big 3. In my online searching however I came across something I found interesting, but I'm not sure if I believe it. It explains how to install a second battery, but in my head it seems far too simple. Here's what I read.
"Installing a second car battery is a fairly simple procedure. All you need is two wires, and a battery. Regardless of what you have heard from morons who think they know everything about electricity when it comes to car audio, all you need is some really cheap plain-jane copper wire. Anything from 12 gauge on up is probably adequate thickness since copper is an excellent conductor. The battery size is up to you, just make sure the standard voltage is 12V.
The best location for an extra battery is in the trunk, since there is probably no room in the engine bay without heavy modifications, and you probably don't want a big heavy battery sitting in the cabin of the vehicle.
If you have a car audio amplifier installed, the installation is that much easier. All you need to do is ground the grounding wire from the negative (-) terminal on the battery to the same place you grounded the amplifier. Then run the power cable up to your other battery and attach it to the positive terminal (+) or just attach it to the power cable to your amp where it meets your amplifier. The hardcore attach the power cable right to the alternator, but I have it attached to my amplifier and i have had no problems with power drains, even using a 12 gauge. cable with an 800W amplifier. However you do it, it will work and you will now have at least twice the stored power available that you once had before.
This takes a huge load off of the alternator, extending its lifetime, and allows you to install more audio amps or other electrical devices. No more headlight dimming or crummy sound from the subwoofers. Enjoy your work!
"
Can it all be so simple? I would guess that the batteries would need to be the same as I hear it is bad to mix them, but putting that aside, is this really all you need to do?
Anyways, I keep hearing that installing a second battery is one of the better ways to aide my electrical system, I would guess second to the big 3. In my online searching however I came across something I found interesting, but I'm not sure if I believe it. It explains how to install a second battery, but in my head it seems far too simple. Here's what I read.
"Installing a second car battery is a fairly simple procedure. All you need is two wires, and a battery. Regardless of what you have heard from morons who think they know everything about electricity when it comes to car audio, all you need is some really cheap plain-jane copper wire. Anything from 12 gauge on up is probably adequate thickness since copper is an excellent conductor. The battery size is up to you, just make sure the standard voltage is 12V.
The best location for an extra battery is in the trunk, since there is probably no room in the engine bay without heavy modifications, and you probably don't want a big heavy battery sitting in the cabin of the vehicle.
If you have a car audio amplifier installed, the installation is that much easier. All you need to do is ground the grounding wire from the negative (-) terminal on the battery to the same place you grounded the amplifier. Then run the power cable up to your other battery and attach it to the positive terminal (+) or just attach it to the power cable to your amp where it meets your amplifier. The hardcore attach the power cable right to the alternator, but I have it attached to my amplifier and i have had no problems with power drains, even using a 12 gauge. cable with an 800W amplifier. However you do it, it will work and you will now have at least twice the stored power available that you once had before.
This takes a huge load off of the alternator, extending its lifetime, and allows you to install more audio amps or other electrical devices. No more headlight dimming or crummy sound from the subwoofers. Enjoy your work!
"Can it all be so simple? I would guess that the batteries would need to be the same as I hear it is bad to mix them, but putting that aside, is this really all you need to do?
02-02-2009, 12:18 PM
#2
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 723
From what I get out of that it sounds as though the battery is being used as a simple capacitor. I'm no genius, but I think I'm right. Having the alternator charge both of these batteries would be a different monster.
The reason all this is necessary for some is because they alternator can't keep up with the demand the system is putting on it. I would venture to say an alternator designed for more output, and the big 3 to allow that extra power to go where it needs to is the best solution.
I see you already have a high-output alternator. Are you still having issues or something? Or just curious.
I'd like to know what the professionals will say on this matter.
The reason all this is necessary for some is because they alternator can't keep up with the demand the system is putting on it. I would venture to say an alternator designed for more output, and the big 3 to allow that extra power to go where it needs to is the best solution.
I see you already have a high-output alternator. Are you still having issues or something? Or just curious.
I'd like to know what the professionals will say on this matter.
Last edited by TragicMagic; 02-02-2009 at 12:21 PM.
02-02-2009, 12:45 PM
#3
I hemmed and hawed about this for a long time before I did it. I even purchased the correct solenoid (auto switching) to place between the 2 batts.
My alt is Ford stock (120 or 130 or maybe 140) but Ii forget the output on it atm.
I have been running like this for 3 months with no ill effects.
Yes, yes, it puts more of a strain on the alt (who cares, if/when it dies I'll have an excuse for H/O) but its not as if the alt has to charge both batts from zero everyday is it?
Once a month (needed or not) I put a charger on both batts. It pretty much instantly drops down to 2 amps and is finished in less than an hour, so I know the batts are being properly charged.
Heres the funny part. I took out the stupid relay because I didnt like the clicking noise.
I ran BOTH a full length (0/1) pos & neg from batt 1 to batt 2, then grounded batt 2 to the chassis anyway.
All 3 amps are connected to the second batt ( distro with fuses).
I have no light dimming issues regardless of volume. I have boatloads of reserve power with the car off, and at minus 20 some mornings, the car starts as if it was the middle of Summertime.
My alt is Ford stock (120 or 130 or maybe 140) but Ii forget the output on it atm.
I have been running like this for 3 months with no ill effects.
Yes, yes, it puts more of a strain on the alt (who cares, if/when it dies I'll have an excuse for H/O) but its not as if the alt has to charge both batts from zero everyday is it?
Once a month (needed or not) I put a charger on both batts. It pretty much instantly drops down to 2 amps and is finished in less than an hour, so I know the batts are being properly charged.
Heres the funny part. I took out the stupid relay because I didnt like the clicking noise.
I ran BOTH a full length (0/1) pos & neg from batt 1 to batt 2, then grounded batt 2 to the chassis anyway.
All 3 amps are connected to the second batt ( distro with fuses).
I have no light dimming issues regardless of volume. I have boatloads of reserve power with the car off, and at minus 20 some mornings, the car starts as if it was the middle of Summertime.
02-02-2009, 12:46 PM
#4
From what I read, the guy is a moron. Adding a second battery doubles the load on the alternator not takes it away as now the alternator has a car to run, a stereo to operate and two batteries to be charged. If the system could not keep up with one battery, how is it supposed to keep up with two? Agree with that and there is no need to take that guys advice. Disagree and go with his advice. Just because something worked for him does not mean that he is correct and does not mean that he will not have future problems.
Just hook everything on up to that second battery, you will have no problems guys..... that is how it reads to me....
Just hook everything on up to that second battery, you will have no problems guys..... that is how it reads to me....
Last edited by MR2NR; 02-02-2009 at 12:52 PM.
02-02-2009, 01:06 PM
#5
Missed the Edit again, but just to let you know, whoever wrote that blurb at the top you quoted is incorrect in his theory.
I made my choices based on my own experience and am willing to accept a new alt sooner or later.
On the other hand, all the hand wringing and histrionics about all the BAD BAD things that will happen to you if you dont do things perfectly by the book?
I made my choices based on my own experience and am willing to accept a new alt sooner or later.
On the other hand, all the hand wringing and histrionics about all the BAD BAD things that will happen to you if you dont do things perfectly by the book?
Last edited by John__Taylor; 02-02-2009 at 01:11 PM.
02-02-2009, 03:03 PM
#6
I think his problem was the 12ga wire. "even using a 12 gauge. cable with an 800W amplifier". Would have taken care of alot of his problems right there. Really if you are going to do the work of putting in a second battery why would you use 12ga?????? IMO if you have power problems with only 800watts, a 2nd battery is the least of your worries.
02-02-2009, 03:16 PM
#7
well i was moving up to 1200 rms but from what i hear from other people my capacitor is a piece of junk and i should move towards upgrading the alternator (which i've done), doing the big 3 (which i plan to do) and installing a second battery (which i don't know how to do), but i found this on installing a second battery and thought it was far to simple to be all i would have to do to put one in
02-02-2009, 04:51 PM
#8
Well right now I am running +/- 800 watts. 97 Cavalier, stock battery, no big 3, stock alt 85a idle, 4ga power and grounds. The 2 amps I have are total 90amps of fuses. NO DIMMING whatsoever, volts do not drop below 13.8 with car on ever, and I have checked alot. Oh and I do have a 3farad cap. Might be a different story in the next couple of weeks when the Memphis Belle goes in at 180 amps with 0/1ga. LOL Might need to do the big3 then LOL. The absolute best thing to do is just hook everything up the way it is and then decide if any upgrades to your electrical are needed. Why spend money now for something you may never need. Definately do the big3 first as it is fairly cheap and will benefit the entire car not just the audio. Ha just noticed you already have a HO alt. 0/1 ga power, ground, and big3 and go bumping. If you have problems then look at adding a 2nd battery. And yes as far as I know that is all you need to do to install a 2nd battery. I don't think mixing brands or types will be an issue as I know of guys running stock under hood and ultimas in the back.
HTH
Nick
HTH
Nick
02-02-2009, 05:42 PM
#9
http://www.kinetikaudio.com/manuals/khccells.pdf
scroll down a coupl pages and its shows how 90% of the people out there (including myself) run a secondary battery
scroll down a coupl pages and its shows how 90% of the people out there (including myself) run a secondary battery
02-02-2009, 11:28 PM
#10
way to come through in the clutch Mike, just like the Steelers (who made me a 24 richer). but does that only work with these specialized car audio batteries or if i were to put in a deep cycle or even just a regular battery would it work the same? plus would the power cell need to match the current battery? to me it looks like a cap with a common ground so i would assume that using a "power cell" would be just a big cap, and the smaller models claim to have more power than a 100 farad cap so my guess is that's what it is. either way if these are that easy to put in then i guess i will have to take a trip to Gemsen, unless you might know some kinetik dealers that might be able to give me a competitive price.
and Nick, thats friggin awesome. i'm running 550 watts rms on a 162 amp alt. that idles at 80 or 90 i think with a 1 farad cap with no big 3 and i get a voltage drop from 14.4 to 12.3 ish so i get a noticeable dim still...but maybe thats because i'm running 8 gauge power and grounds. but thats going to change to 2 ga. welding cable when i put in the new amp with 1250 rms...now i just need subs....still the next time i'm in brampton i'd like to see this cavalier
and Nick, thats friggin awesome. i'm running 550 watts rms on a 162 amp alt. that idles at 80 or 90 i think with a 1 farad cap with no big 3 and i get a voltage drop from 14.4 to 12.3 ish so i get a noticeable dim still...but maybe thats because i'm running 8 gauge power and grounds. but thats going to change to 2 ga. welding cable when i put in the new amp with 1250 rms...now i just need subs....still the next time i'm in brampton i'd like to see this cavalier
