It's a good thing not everyone thinks they're stable at low impedances anymore. If I had one, I wouldn't think it would just die or fry, woundn't make much sense. Besides, most of their subs and amps are cheap to replace.

Don't knock internet sales. A good company can do well and provide excellent customer service. Shops just hate them because as stated, they can't compete cost wise as their expenses are much greater. Funny part is the guys buying off the internet and then taking their gear to a shop to get it installed and passing out when they find out how much an installation costs.

One other thing I'd like to throw out there. Looks as if all the choices are mainstream well known gear and most of it being mid to higher end. It's amazing how much car audio is all about the LC factor and bragging about high end one is. Half the time the install is so sh!t that low end gear installed properly would kill it sound wise.

I may stand alone on this but if I can go to a shop, get decent advice to fit my needs and they can install a decent amplifier and some decent driver for a reasonable price and make it killer sounding, I'll be one happy camper. Then again for me, I'm not all about Alpine F1 and bragging rights. I just want good tunes that sound right and sh!t that doesn't break down. Mind you, I don't think that I'm considered the average car audio consumer as I'm an old man :D I've already done the "too many 15's" with a big amps - more is better" thing.......... and killed off my hearing temporarily. And also experienced the "Farg, it's broken again" syndrome too often with complex systems. When you get old-er, you don't have the time for that kinda crap anymore.

[ June 25, 2003, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]

I agree Tom, I'd alway opt to buy locally so I can go talk to the guys, get great advice.... but sometimes my wallet gives me no choice but to buy online.

What gets me beefing is that some brands absolutely boycott internet sales, not only that but also tell people that the warranty on self-installed product would be limited compared to getting it installed by an authorised dealer. Companies like Kicker, Diamond Audio, MB Quart and such do that. Internet sales can be worked around. But if you know how to install, why can't it be installed yourself instead of having to mess around paying someone to do it for you that can install it as good as you can?
I'm not talking about consumers who don't know what they're doing, I'm meaning the ones that do.

It's a good thing not everyone thinks they're stable at low impedances anymore. If I had one, I wouldn't think it would just die or fry, woundn't make much sense. Besides, most of their subs and amps are cheap to replace. </font>[/QUOTE]What do you consider 'low impedence'? The 3001XMD was rated to one ohm. This car: http://www./future_shop_1...ic_system1.htm ran 3 4 ohm woofers on each in parallel and Rob cranked the snot out of it all summer with zero problems.

I also did a Cherokee with 6 10s all parallel off a single 3001XMD and it never had any problems.

I'm not a huge Sony fan or anything but in my experience if you didn't do anything stupid to the amps they performed quite well and were very reliable. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] Was quite shocking to me cuz I used to consider the amps junk too..

Little kids like to use the bridgeable 2 channel amps that are not very good below 4 ohm mono. :D
I wasn't including the 3001XMD, that's not a bad piece. You have it wired at 1.33 ohm with 3 4 ohm subs, too. You didn't need to hear that from me, though, I just felt like teasing.

A Cherokee with 6 10's all paralleled? 8 ohm each, or 4?

[ June 25, 2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Chadxton ]

but how do you sort through the claims made by people who do know what they are doing and those that do not?

send out car audio private investigators to talk to the guys friends, and sneak pics of their car at night?

it supports the authorized dealers by encouraging consumers to buy at the dealer at full retail price and having installed by reputable techs that the store and manufacturer instill a level of faith in.

it reduces the claims made resulting from improper installs etc.

whats more is that i have heard great things, for example, about eclipse.

i guy i work with had his eclipse deck (not sure which model but a nice one) stolen and eclipse gave him a new one just like that because he bought it from the dealer and paid upwards of $1000 with full warranty.

that makes me want to spend $1000 on an eclipse deck.

Yeah, that's true. I knew someone would come up with that argument. I figured taking pics of the install prior would give some proof. But even if you buy something online, generally if it's a reputable dealer, they would give you some sort of warranty usually no longer than a year, albeit not warranteed under the manufacturer. Some warranty is better than none at all.
Sure, I'd pay for the service if bought at a dealer, but I get too much DIY stuff to care for it anymore. [img]smile.gif[/img]

but I think for every competent DIYer, there could be many more people who have zero clue are blowing up subs and amps and then bitching if it doesn't get covered under warranty. The local shop gets calls from people all the time who hooked stuff up themselves and fried equipment. Are these dealers/manufacturers supposed to give a test to DIYers to see how competent they are?
The local shop gets as close as you can to helping out good DIYers while safeguarding as much as you can against screwed up DIY installs.

The shop has signed off on installs(eclipse decks) if they inspect the wiring before the person hooks it up(gets them a 3 year warranty instead of 1 year), and the shop knows the wiring is ok. There are other shops that will do that. They will work with the competent DIYer that way, but they need to see the work before saying it is ok. People complain about companies who don't have authorized internet sales, but then, if they had authorized internet sales, many of those same people would complain that the price is too high(same price as an authorized local shop, for example).

I think many if not nearly all manufacturers will eventually have authorized online sales, but I think the warranties will be extended if installed(approved by??) an authorized dealer. It helps manufacturers on warranty repairs, and it gives an incentive to buy from shops(who put most of these companies on the map long before internet sales were a big deal). From the manufacturers' POV, Authorized prices should be the same online as they are in stores.

Yeah, as a rule I don't make a stink of things, and 9 of 10 products bought from the internet that I don't have a problem with. Less than half the time I can return the defective product if it's a nice guy who has extra stock and can spare an extra. The rest of the times it doesn't work out, I'm hooped because it's sold as is. I had to rant, and I had to let it out. [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]