cock a dutie due....
12-01-2009, 01:27 PM
#12
This is if the product is defective. I'd like to think that the person is buying something of decent quality and not Pyle. So odds of it going bad aren't that great. Also, at the prices you can sometimes get product you can actually BUY it 3x before you reach the amount that some authorized Canadian retailers will charge you. (also, you CAN buy from Authorized retailers online in the US and it will still be cheaper than what you can get it for in Canada so don't just ASSume that it's not an authorized vendor)
Jordy, problems can happen at any point in the use of the item. I as a retailer see warranty claims all the time, for items of "decent quality and not Pyle". So the odds are nowhere near as slim as they you are telling people they are. I am sure many users here on the site have had a warranty issue or know someone who has. There is even a service depot vendor here on the site, I wonder why that is? Does he get no business from the site? I wonder how many warranty claims a week that vendor sees? I think your interpretation of warranty is a little scewed if you ask me. You are not a vendor are you, do you do business as I do? I have no problems posting all the warranty items I have had for the year on the site, how's about you do the same. Facts can speak wonders according to you, when do you want my post ready by?
Jordy, by all means as you as so "PRO" shop in the US and not with the vendors here on the site, show me Focal and Morel for example from online authorized dealers in the US at 3X the cheaper than my price. Who is fear mongering now Jordy? Hows about showing me the unauthorized vendors in the US with pricing that is 3X cheaper than mine. More fear mongering on your part as well.
Seriously? If you throw out the box you're SOL? C'mon now, that's just silly. Your issue of not being able to get product or it no longer being available also stands for Canadian retailers so the point is irrelevant. God knows I've tried to exchange product to FS or BB and they just don't carry the line or specific model any more.
Yes the no longer available also stands for CDN retailers however it is far better to deal with any authorized dealer before the unauthorized dealer. Ever wonder why the unauthorized guy cannot get items for months at a time? There was a PM sent to me just about a week ago about a Eclipse amp in the US. It was priced over $150.00 below CDN dealer cost. It was from a unauthorized site. I have the amp in stock, they have not had stock on it for over a month now. I wonder why that is? Bait and switch happens all the time from those guys, are you that nieve to beleive it does not happen? Or do you not want the members of the site to know about it? Hell I would give you a great price on a amp if I knew it was not in stock and never ever coming back into stock. Do I have to make a website and put a amp on sale for way under dealer cost and then never have stock on it just to satisfy the fact that this kind of crap happens all the time. Or would this be something that I would not do as it is both highly unethical and illegal to do so here in Canada. I guess you and the US dealers you like so much play to your own tune though.
Then your step son did it wrong. As others have said if you ship by USPS then these "extra" charges after that fact WON'T happen. Sure, ship by UPS or FedEx and it's going to happen but don't assume that just because your step son screwed up and didn't do his research that everyone else will get hosed.
Consider that not all retailers in the US ship USPS and some only ship by courier or did you not want the site members to know that either? The product is the sellers until it hits your door and you sign for it. If I was shipping something I would want to make sure it is 100% looked after as it is not in my best interest to lose money for both myself and my paying customer. I am here to service my customer to the best of my abilities. Lets see your "friends" in the US do that on anywhere near the level that I do. I guess service does not matter to you though, you just want 3X the cheaper price. My step son did it right, he played by the rules and did not try and cheat the system as you are so keen on doing.
Don't ship it as a gift and pay the $10-$20 at the end and you're still MILES ahead of what an authorized retailer will charge. Also, have it insured and USPS *will* cover it. I've done it myself and also had it going the other way with Canada Post. Sure, it takes 2-3 months but you aren't going to lose your money.
Miles ahead.... that is a pretty bold blanket statement for you to make. You are not a vendor, you are not able to comment on what we charge to our customers here in Canada. You have no vested interest in carrying products to retail from legitimate channels here in Canada on the level that would make you a bonifide vendor. Jordy, unless you have a storefront and have a understanding of business like a business owner does, you are clearly grasping at straws in a arguement that you will not win. You have made it perfectly clear with your blanket statement that prices are 3X higher in Canada when the FACT is that you are completely misguided and spewing your own fear at the same time. Are there items that could be priced out to lunch, yes there are. I am not nieve at the same time. You however have not considered at all the other side to your own discussion and have not informed the members of this site to that fact.
I just had a pair of 8" subs shipped up from the US by a friend of mine. Total charges "after that fact" through USPS/Canada Post? $0.00!
Good to hear that you have a friend in the US to take care of things for you. Not everyone does. Total surprise shipping import duty GST BS charges from me shipping a item "after that fact" is zero 100% of the time. Take your chance with the surprise from the US, fact is that more often than not, the buyer gets hit with another bill and there is no disputing that either. Or do I need to take a digital pic and post it here on the site for you to beleive it to be true?
Basically... Rob, you know I like you and I appreciate that you're a paying vendor here trying to make a living.. I DO NOT like the fear mongering you spew around here.
I am a paying vendor here Jordy and I would like to think that I bust my a$$ off for my customers as well. I am pretty sure I am speaking for all the paying vendors here on the forum, that I (we) do not appreciate your subliminal messages and direct messages to my (our) potential customers on where they should shop in the US and save "3X" the price as compared to what a item can be purchased from a authorized dealer in Canada. You might want to consider the fact that not one of those online audio sites in the US contributes any $ to this site. This site needs CDN vendor support, I support it financially and tirelessly by helping people with their problems, even when I don't get any financial benefit from those people. I am not going to get everyone's business and I am fine with that. I am quite sure that the site owners would agree that your intent to discredit me is completely misguided and that your attempt to discredit the CDN vendors here on the site has all the potential of costing the site business and the CDN vendors here on the site business.
Either you're misinformed or you're just talking out your *** in order to skew the perception of our users. Either way it's BS.
Jordy, I am a business owner for 15 years now, 22 in the industry. I play by the rules. You so obviously do not. I do not care for your attempt to discredit myself and my completely valid points that I will indeed back up with fact if necessary. Hows about we both do a little experiment. We both buy some speakers from the US, from a unauthorized online seller, have them sent up by UPS, blow one speaker, then send the whole works back without the box and see what happens. We can even post the hidden charges for everyone to see at the same time. Or are you not one to throw money away? I have no problem putting my money where my mouth is, the question is do you?
Jordy, problems can happen at any point in the use of the item. I as a retailer see warranty claims all the time, for items of "decent quality and not Pyle". So the odds are nowhere near as slim as they you are telling people they are. I am sure many users here on the site have had a warranty issue or know someone who has. There is even a service depot vendor here on the site, I wonder why that is? Does he get no business from the site? I wonder how many warranty claims a week that vendor sees? I think your interpretation of warranty is a little scewed if you ask me. You are not a vendor are you, do you do business as I do? I have no problems posting all the warranty items I have had for the year on the site, how's about you do the same. Facts can speak wonders according to you, when do you want my post ready by?
Jordy, by all means as you as so "PRO" shop in the US and not with the vendors here on the site, show me Focal and Morel for example from online authorized dealers in the US at 3X the cheaper than my price. Who is fear mongering now Jordy? Hows about showing me the unauthorized vendors in the US with pricing that is 3X cheaper than mine. More fear mongering on your part as well.
Seriously? If you throw out the box you're SOL? C'mon now, that's just silly. Your issue of not being able to get product or it no longer being available also stands for Canadian retailers so the point is irrelevant. God knows I've tried to exchange product to FS or BB and they just don't carry the line or specific model any more.
Yes the no longer available also stands for CDN retailers however it is far better to deal with any authorized dealer before the unauthorized dealer. Ever wonder why the unauthorized guy cannot get items for months at a time? There was a PM sent to me just about a week ago about a Eclipse amp in the US. It was priced over $150.00 below CDN dealer cost. It was from a unauthorized site. I have the amp in stock, they have not had stock on it for over a month now. I wonder why that is? Bait and switch happens all the time from those guys, are you that nieve to beleive it does not happen? Or do you not want the members of the site to know about it? Hell I would give you a great price on a amp if I knew it was not in stock and never ever coming back into stock. Do I have to make a website and put a amp on sale for way under dealer cost and then never have stock on it just to satisfy the fact that this kind of crap happens all the time. Or would this be something that I would not do as it is both highly unethical and illegal to do so here in Canada. I guess you and the US dealers you like so much play to your own tune though.
Then your step son did it wrong. As others have said if you ship by USPS then these "extra" charges after that fact WON'T happen. Sure, ship by UPS or FedEx and it's going to happen but don't assume that just because your step son screwed up and didn't do his research that everyone else will get hosed.
Consider that not all retailers in the US ship USPS and some only ship by courier or did you not want the site members to know that either? The product is the sellers until it hits your door and you sign for it. If I was shipping something I would want to make sure it is 100% looked after as it is not in my best interest to lose money for both myself and my paying customer. I am here to service my customer to the best of my abilities. Lets see your "friends" in the US do that on anywhere near the level that I do. I guess service does not matter to you though, you just want 3X the cheaper price. My step son did it right, he played by the rules and did not try and cheat the system as you are so keen on doing.
Don't ship it as a gift and pay the $10-$20 at the end and you're still MILES ahead of what an authorized retailer will charge. Also, have it insured and USPS *will* cover it. I've done it myself and also had it going the other way with Canada Post. Sure, it takes 2-3 months but you aren't going to lose your money.
Miles ahead.... that is a pretty bold blanket statement for you to make. You are not a vendor, you are not able to comment on what we charge to our customers here in Canada. You have no vested interest in carrying products to retail from legitimate channels here in Canada on the level that would make you a bonifide vendor. Jordy, unless you have a storefront and have a understanding of business like a business owner does, you are clearly grasping at straws in a arguement that you will not win. You have made it perfectly clear with your blanket statement that prices are 3X higher in Canada when the FACT is that you are completely misguided and spewing your own fear at the same time. Are there items that could be priced out to lunch, yes there are. I am not nieve at the same time. You however have not considered at all the other side to your own discussion and have not informed the members of this site to that fact.
I just had a pair of 8" subs shipped up from the US by a friend of mine. Total charges "after that fact" through USPS/Canada Post? $0.00!
Good to hear that you have a friend in the US to take care of things for you. Not everyone does. Total surprise shipping import duty GST BS charges from me shipping a item "after that fact" is zero 100% of the time. Take your chance with the surprise from the US, fact is that more often than not, the buyer gets hit with another bill and there is no disputing that either. Or do I need to take a digital pic and post it here on the site for you to beleive it to be true?
Basically... Rob, you know I like you and I appreciate that you're a paying vendor here trying to make a living.. I DO NOT like the fear mongering you spew around here.
I am a paying vendor here Jordy and I would like to think that I bust my a$$ off for my customers as well. I am pretty sure I am speaking for all the paying vendors here on the forum, that I (we) do not appreciate your subliminal messages and direct messages to my (our) potential customers on where they should shop in the US and save "3X" the price as compared to what a item can be purchased from a authorized dealer in Canada. You might want to consider the fact that not one of those online audio sites in the US contributes any $ to this site. This site needs CDN vendor support, I support it financially and tirelessly by helping people with their problems, even when I don't get any financial benefit from those people. I am not going to get everyone's business and I am fine with that. I am quite sure that the site owners would agree that your intent to discredit me is completely misguided and that your attempt to discredit the CDN vendors here on the site has all the potential of costing the site business and the CDN vendors here on the site business.
Either you're misinformed or you're just talking out your *** in order to skew the perception of our users. Either way it's BS.
Jordy, I am a business owner for 15 years now, 22 in the industry. I play by the rules. You so obviously do not. I do not care for your attempt to discredit myself and my completely valid points that I will indeed back up with fact if necessary. Hows about we both do a little experiment. We both buy some speakers from the US, from a unauthorized online seller, have them sent up by UPS, blow one speaker, then send the whole works back without the box and see what happens. We can even post the hidden charges for everyone to see at the same time. Or are you not one to throw money away? I have no problem putting my money where my mouth is, the question is do you?
Last edited by MR2NR; 12-01-2009 at 01:29 PM.
12-01-2009, 01:47 PM
#13
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 849
I plan on ordering some stuff from MR2NR instead of buying stuff on Ebay or Future Shop. Future Shop only has so brands, MR2NR has a lot more for sure. It will be nice to support a Canadian dealer, and the shipping will be much cheaper because we both live in Canada.
12-01-2009, 01:51 PM
#14
woooo Rob you kinda killing it man.
there are two sides to every story. I agree Jordy kinda ripped on you but you also gotta agree that you tried to instill fear into the kid's mind. Surely there are positives to be had when it comes to purchasing from the US if it is done right (save money, variety) to go along with all the posible negatives (no warranty, lost in transit).
You gotta be fair and let an individual decide on their own, do they want to save money and risk the lack of warranty? Do they want to buy something you cant get in Canada and take the risk of it being lost/stolen/damaged in shipping.
When I do these kinds of purchases, i think twice, many factors are taken into the account. But I'm not gonna say that I never bought anything from eBay in the US or from a store in the US via internet. Buying things like in dash dvd player, sure I'd over pay a bit but get one from the dealer here and get full warranty (which I have used). But things like power wire.......please, no way would I allow a Canadian dealer to rip me off 5 and a half times.
there are two sides to every story. I agree Jordy kinda ripped on you but you also gotta agree that you tried to instill fear into the kid's mind. Surely there are positives to be had when it comes to purchasing from the US if it is done right (save money, variety) to go along with all the posible negatives (no warranty, lost in transit).
You gotta be fair and let an individual decide on their own, do they want to save money and risk the lack of warranty? Do they want to buy something you cant get in Canada and take the risk of it being lost/stolen/damaged in shipping.
When I do these kinds of purchases, i think twice, many factors are taken into the account. But I'm not gonna say that I never bought anything from eBay in the US or from a store in the US via internet. Buying things like in dash dvd player, sure I'd over pay a bit but get one from the dealer here and get full warranty (which I have used). But things like power wire.......please, no way would I allow a Canadian dealer to rip me off 5 and a half times.
12-01-2009, 02:00 PM
#15
Pertinent links to help dispel the "fear mongering"
Morel Loudspeakers - COUNTERFEIT PRODUCTS WARNING
Focal JMlab enceintes acoustiques haute fidlit haut-parleurs voiture audiomobile Car audio tuning
JL Audio - Car Audio Systems
Internet Sales Policy - Memphis Car Audio
http://www.audison.com/
took a whole 2 minutes to get these "fear mongering" links for the site members to see. If you buy an item from the US and it comes up with no serial number, a serial number that has been scratched off or the tamper sticker is missing (although as it is missing you would never know), there is a better than the average bear chance that there will be zero warranty on the item from the manufacturer no matter how much you bad mouth them and tell them you are going to drag their name through the mud. The onus is on you and the expense is on you to return it to the seller and have them try and solve it for you. While yes some of those people will indeed do this, you never know what you will be getting in return. Is it a refurbed amp in a different box? Who knows as they are most oftenly unauthorized dealers? Don't be nieve, crap like this happens all the time. There has to be a avenue for the sellers in the US to get rid of all the repaired items as well. The seller in the US is under no obligation to tell you where they purchased the item from. Want to be sure, call the manufacturer and get their info as well.
Yuli, someone, anyone attacks me in a fashion as was just done, they are going to get a earful, that is most certain and it will no doubt involve facts and not BS. This was completely unprofessional of Jordy to have done this and I am hoping that his comments were made in the spur of the moment and not a well thought out and planned post. I do see both sides of the issue, no doubt about that at all. I am not here to put the fear of god into someone (I save that for when I am really working my other job). I am here to be fair, ethical and be of value and service to the Canadians who are on this site.
Morel Loudspeakers - COUNTERFEIT PRODUCTS WARNING
Focal JMlab enceintes acoustiques haute fidlit haut-parleurs voiture audiomobile Car audio tuning
JL Audio - Car Audio Systems
Internet Sales Policy - Memphis Car Audio
http://www.audison.com/
took a whole 2 minutes to get these "fear mongering" links for the site members to see. If you buy an item from the US and it comes up with no serial number, a serial number that has been scratched off or the tamper sticker is missing (although as it is missing you would never know), there is a better than the average bear chance that there will be zero warranty on the item from the manufacturer no matter how much you bad mouth them and tell them you are going to drag their name through the mud. The onus is on you and the expense is on you to return it to the seller and have them try and solve it for you. While yes some of those people will indeed do this, you never know what you will be getting in return. Is it a refurbed amp in a different box? Who knows as they are most oftenly unauthorized dealers? Don't be nieve, crap like this happens all the time. There has to be a avenue for the sellers in the US to get rid of all the repaired items as well. The seller in the US is under no obligation to tell you where they purchased the item from. Want to be sure, call the manufacturer and get their info as well.
Yuli, someone, anyone attacks me in a fashion as was just done, they are going to get a earful, that is most certain and it will no doubt involve facts and not BS. This was completely unprofessional of Jordy to have done this and I am hoping that his comments were made in the spur of the moment and not a well thought out and planned post. I do see both sides of the issue, no doubt about that at all. I am not here to put the fear of god into someone (I save that for when I am really working my other job). I am here to be fair, ethical and be of value and service to the Canadians who are on this site.
12-01-2009, 02:15 PM
#16
Rob.. as a vendor you have paid for the priviledge of ADVERTISING here and that is all.
You don't pay for the right to pop off and say whatever BS you want without me calling you on it. If I think you're full of crap I'll speak up.
I also think you misunderstood my post. I was pointing out the specific items I quoted (that's why I broke it down the way I did) ... as for getting things like Morel and Focal, which aren't available online, then I would direct people to you EVERY single time!
I think the problem is that you're concentrating your efforts on preventing people from buying online EVER. Instead of focusing on the negative of online shopping (and looking silly doing it) why not talk about the BENEFITS of your company? The quality of workmaship, service and support that you provide!
Here's a shock for you.. a few years ago I bought my Kicker L5 online from an authorized vendor. I paid about 1/2 of the price that it would have locally, I paid ZERO taxes and duty and I also got a free Dynamat trunk kit.
The product wasn't defective (Kicker builds quality product imho) and I was really happy with it for a good 3-4 years until it was stolen. I would do this again 10x over before I talk to the local shops where I live because they're a bunch of jerks. Hell, I'll even drive 2hrs to Kingston and visit my friends at Best Buy there before I shop with the guys in my city.
Also, for furture reference, you keep talking about how much you pay to be here and how you think that makes you a super-special person. I'll just remind you that I don't make a *single penny* off of you being here. I volunteer my time and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit quietly while you spew crap and make the entire board look silly.
If anything your presence here is a pain in my *** because you think we should all bend over for you. Don't think I've forgotten about how you threatened to sue me and the entire mod/admin staff because we didn't pull down a post you were unhappy with. (The fact that you got dropped as a vendor for a while there should have shown you how we won't put up with your BS)
Anyways, this post has now gone way off topic. Lets get it back on track or I'll have to close it.
Also, Rob, don't bother replying to this if you just want to continue fighting. It won't end well for you
You don't pay for the right to pop off and say whatever BS you want without me calling you on it. If I think you're full of crap I'll speak up.
I also think you misunderstood my post. I was pointing out the specific items I quoted (that's why I broke it down the way I did) ... as for getting things like Morel and Focal, which aren't available online, then I would direct people to you EVERY single time!
I think the problem is that you're concentrating your efforts on preventing people from buying online EVER. Instead of focusing on the negative of online shopping (and looking silly doing it) why not talk about the BENEFITS of your company? The quality of workmaship, service and support that you provide!
Here's a shock for you.. a few years ago I bought my Kicker L5 online from an authorized vendor. I paid about 1/2 of the price that it would have locally, I paid ZERO taxes and duty and I also got a free Dynamat trunk kit.
The product wasn't defective (Kicker builds quality product imho) and I was really happy with it for a good 3-4 years until it was stolen. I would do this again 10x over before I talk to the local shops where I live because they're a bunch of jerks. Hell, I'll even drive 2hrs to Kingston and visit my friends at Best Buy there before I shop with the guys in my city.
Also, for furture reference, you keep talking about how much you pay to be here and how you think that makes you a super-special person. I'll just remind you that I don't make a *single penny* off of you being here. I volunteer my time and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit quietly while you spew crap and make the entire board look silly.
If anything your presence here is a pain in my *** because you think we should all bend over for you. Don't think I've forgotten about how you threatened to sue me and the entire mod/admin staff because we didn't pull down a post you were unhappy with. (The fact that you got dropped as a vendor for a while there should have shown you how we won't put up with your BS)
Anyways, this post has now gone way off topic. Lets get it back on track or I'll have to close it.
Also, Rob, don't bother replying to this if you just want to continue fighting. It won't end well for you
12-01-2009, 02:18 PM
#17
If HAT product is now at par with the US prices then I'd definitely buy from a B&M up here!
I just get offended when some people either bring up false facts about shipping or they feel like they are OWED my business because they're Canadian.
Companies earn my business, they aren't owed it. I work too hard for my money to just throw it away because of geography.
(actually.. I was just thinking about some HAT products for this spring so knowing about this US pricing thing is great timing!)
12-01-2009, 02:30 PM
#18
One thing ... warranty isn't that great of a motivator for self installers. Speakers, amps usually offer a 90day warranty if you do it yourself, HU's I think are 1 year (Might be wrong but that one makes it worth it to me). Most forum guys are DIYers so warranty is zero benefit to us really.
As for the original posters questions, I find that shipping has gone up a lot from the states. what use to cost 20$ is now 40$ or double what it use to cost maybe 4 years ago. It makes US purchases mostly worth it only on bulk purchases where the savings add up and not so much on single items anymore.
As for the original posters questions, I find that shipping has gone up a lot from the states. what use to cost 20$ is now 40$ or double what it use to cost maybe 4 years ago. It makes US purchases mostly worth it only on bulk purchases where the savings add up and not so much on single items anymore.
12-01-2009, 02:35 PM
#19
I support them when I can and when it makes sense.
If HAT product is now at par with the US prices then I'd definitely buy from a B&M up here!
I just get offended when some people either bring up false facts about shipping or they feel like they are OWED my business because they're Canadian.
Companies earn my business, they aren't owed it. I work too hard for my money to just throw it away because of geography.
(actually.. I was just thinking about some HAT products for this spring so knowing about this US pricing thing is great timing!)
If HAT product is now at par with the US prices then I'd definitely buy from a B&M up here!
I just get offended when some people either bring up false facts about shipping or they feel like they are OWED my business because they're Canadian.
Companies earn my business, they aren't owed it. I work too hard for my money to just throw it away because of geography.
(actually.. I was just thinking about some HAT products for this spring so knowing about this US pricing thing is great timing!)
Not too many Best Buys hold comps.
Lastly, if a small distributor such as myself can adjust prices to be at par why are we not seeing more of the same?
