Hey Rob, I'm not too sure on the "champagne" taste you have dude. I think it more like molson. He He J/K. Just pokin' dude. You comin' to FX's events?

 

hmmmmmmmm beer...of course i'll be there, i gotta retain my point standing lol [img]tongue.gif[/img]

 

O.K. Im not disagreeing with you guys at all, and I'm not singling any body out by quoting this link so dont be mad) but the cost alone dosen't make them better, the product itself does, and more importantly the install does, and im just wondering, a flat response curve from a driver, how? you couldn't just use a real time analizer on a mid-range driver by itself, the front and rear waves from the speaker would cancel each other out, and you most definatly wouldn't get an even response curve, no matter what. The speaker would resonate with the size of the room, and certain frequencies would be louder, and some quieter, go to a different room, and everything would change again. If anything, one would have to load the driver in a box, get the proper roll-off rate, and trap the rear waves, and test it in an egg shaped room to stop the pressence of standing waves. Plus I'd A$$-u-me if it were done at the factory, it would most likely be loaded in a box with a butterworth response, which generally would be un acceptable (because of size the enclosure would have to be) for an automotive application. On top of that, every vehical is different, so the response curve in a studio, or testing facility, is totally different from a beetle or a ram p-up or whatever, the only thing they would use a RTA for is to see when the speaker goes out of control, or cant reproduce say 100 Hz or somthing, only to put that info on the box (hence "Response: 80Hz - 12,000Hz") Im pretty sure you cant just measure the respone of any speaker without using an enclosure, so I'm prety sure (with most likely, alot of time taken) that I could design an enclosue that could out perform most high end speakers,in a door panel or pod, with less expensive speakers, (like a JBL! power series, I choose them, cuz thas what I have, and all I have to say about them is wow! when I took the time to install them properly, i got an extra 9Db from one, then 6Db more with each of the next 3 speakers, 26Db, just from the install, and they have better bass response too!) that all, but a speaker that IS Trully beter, in the same STYLE application would probobly win, atleast, if I spent all that money and they didn't I'd be pissed, maybe thats why you guys are getting soooo mad

 

Hmmmmmmm, in the beginning I was getting the impression that this thread was heading down that road that I remember being talked about so often way back when............. people buying expensive gear, it being literally tossed in their cars and then hearing them talk the **** about how great it sounds and barfing forth technical mumbo-jumbo that they read in some mag that review similar gear in someone car like Richard Clarks.............. the impression that buying the same expensive gear as so-and-so has gets you great results regardless of the install. People like this usually have no clue about the finer points of installing car audio, and are a stores golden ticket because they are so retarded. Great for sales though, but not so good on forums and at shows where others know better.

That's what's so nice about forums like this. Everyone here pretty much knows that the install is 80% of what the finished product will sound like............ in a basic sense, although it is hard the generalize so grandly. But I think people basically know what I mean.

 

Not all speakers are made equal. THIS IS A FACT. No one in this or any forum will say that a Focal Polykelvar cone is equal to a Jensen paper cone. But this not to say that the Focal could sound like crap if someone couldn't install them properly.

Pretend that there were no variables except for one, the driver itself. Now each speaker got the best install possible and no way could you say that a Focal or whatever for that matter is equal to the Jensen. It may be the case that you prefer the Jensens' sound to the Focal, that doesn't matter, but the Focal is more efficient at what it does, reproduce sound, the way the music or whatever was recorded.

I don't buy the most expensive brands for one reason, why pay the price when you can get something that's is close to equal for half the price. I have a eD 15A and have listen to a 13W7, I think I did pretty well for $300 US compared to $600 or whatever the hell it is now(retail, not off the internet) for the JL.

Some people do care what brands their speakers/amps/HU/etc is. I can admit, that I do care if I run CDT comps instead of Jensen. But if my HD CDTs sounded like Jensens for the same amount of money, I would still buy the CDT's for the name. JL sucks because they are overpriced, but the 13W7 could be the very best sounding(SQ) sub on this planet. Enuff Said.

 

A couple of things I have not seen added to fuel this fire:

1) time spent in engineering and design of a speaker. Companies who are more serious about the sound of their speakers spend a lot of time and money in R&D to create a well-balanced speaker. This time and money is reflected in the price of the gear

2) materials used. Some materials are better suited for better sound. They may happen to cost more money to produce. Sometimes there is just more of the same material, like in a larger magnet. This cost is reflected in the price of the gear.

So while I do not agree with 2 or 3-way components costing several thousand dollars, I can see justification in a speaker set costing $500-1000 and why it would sound better than some Road Gear from Wal-mart given the exact same installation application [img]smile.gif[/img] And, some high-end stuff can sound crappy too. I've heard lots of luke warm results about the Focal Utopia line with much better reviews of the less-expensive Polykevlar line.

 

all this talk about speakers and installs, and paul tracy remind me of this install a friend on mine had done. He couldn't understand why his mb quart speakers sounded like ****, the shop that sold it to him promised him that by installing the coax's into the fatory location would greatly improve the tonal quality of the music coming thru, also that the deadliner installed on the door would be the icing on the cake, so for years he went on listening to them in this state. He felt stupid to have to go back and argue with the saleman because he thought the shop must be right if they were professionals and certified. So my friend brings me his truck and i take out the speakers and what do i find....the shop had wrapped the speakers in plastic wrap and installed, them like that, completely choking the speaker(and no deadliner). i guess the installer must have thought that he could isolate the front and rear wave with celophane instead of installing them properly with some deadliner on the door. As soon as i removed the plastic, the speakers improved 100 fold. My freind learned his leasson the hard way(had to listen like that for about 2 years) but he has now used these for about 4 years peoperly, and won't go to any other brand, and stays away from shops. unfortunately it's his own fault for not speaking up but i still to this way can't belive any one could install in this matter. In the end the speaker are fine, the install was ****ty. you can't dwell on it all. you must move forward. fix it if it sounds like ****. or keep listening to it it it doesn't. I got one bad ear, so when i adjust the music to come out perfectly , everyone else cringes. So if it sounds good to your ears ,so be it. Some people aren't made to listen to good properly sounding music, i know i ain't. so who cares which brand is better, or worse, or if the install is good or ****ty. (although i can tell a ****ty install from a decent one) Good luck to you all in finding good sounding music. I'm gonna go sleep now. and rest my one good ear.

 

speakers are good

 

R U Dum?