Look at this classic deck!
#41
When you have a properly level matched test (removes the effects of sound processing) between $20,000 amps vs. a $100.00 amp and golden ears (audiophiles who claim they can hear better than most others) can't pick which one is playing with their choice of music and speakers...that's something to think about.
Don't attack me. There is no point, which is exactly what I'm sarcastically implying. This thread has turned into a processor/amp/I'm-right-you're-wrong war. If that's where it's going to go, move and rename the thread. What does anything about processors and amps have to do with a McIntosh MX406??!??!? And I don't want to hear examples of how they are, because I could start talking about the quality of RCA's and start thatwar. Just because they connect to the deck doesn't mean we need to argue about other components. We're way off track here, hence why I made the sticker comment.... Sorry that went over your head 

The deck needs to be able to produce a clean signal to start with. It is the heart of the system, not an amp or processor. The ONLY fuction of a processor in a PROPERLY installed system is to compensate for peaks and valleys in the frequency range created by the vehicle itself. This can be time correction, or simple adjustments to specific frequencies that aren't accurately being percieved. An amps function is as simple as it's name.... To amplify the sound, aka make it LOUD! All of the components can alter the sound. Rant over. Peace
"Amp just amps the sound" is an old argument and people who wish to be on that side of the fence throw it in, but it makes no sense to me, cause not just any amp can have a perfect design to do a perfect job. Cheaper amps use inferior parts and build quality is lower, so they dont do a good job amping the sound, but rather screw everything up and introduce undesirable effects while at it. As you say yourself, any component can alter the sound, so why are we even arguing, you just proved yourself and us correct, that amps do sound different. One of the easiest sounds to tell apart is bright or laidback, as well as tiny or open. Noise level is another one, and so is the grip on speakers. Amp manufacturers make up their specs, and a lot of times a more expensive but lower rated amp blows away the cheap stuff on every level, whether it's power, noise, or separation.
Last edited by Sasha; 11-27-2009 at 02:24 PM.
#42
man are we suckers as consumers then, if this really is the case then alot of us really need to reevaluate why we buy the amps that we do.
is there any studies that can actually be shown on this either way?
or is it all just talk from both points of view?
that would resolve the issue alot quicker in my mind anyways.
.....and everyone tone it down a little, why get hostile over online opinions?
is there any studies that can actually be shown on this either way?
or is it all just talk from both points of view?
that would resolve the issue alot quicker in my mind anyways.
.....and everyone tone it down a little, why get hostile over online opinions?
#43
Perhaps folks can stop reading online bs, and start doing the tests themselves, and then offer opinions. A lot of this amps are all the same comes from trolling the web and not actual personal experiences and that just adds more bs. Those who have Vrx's, Billets, SE's, DLS's, and many other fine amps do not suddenly sell their amps and get cheap stuff, because they did not start with those amps, but rather worked their way towards them going through other amps and not getting that unique sound that makes them melt in the car seat. I only know one guy that actually sold his Vrx's and got something cheaper, and he is all over the place with his stance, he goes back and forth with it depending on weather, and now he got DLS RA's recently, but why bother and waste time if it all is the same. I dont whether to feel bad for myself or others who cant hear it, cause I may be forever damned to buy expensive stuff, and those who cant a difference can spend their money elsewhere. Well, it makes no difference, I am happy with my expensive taste at every level of my lifestyle, and if I can afford it I will get it. I try to surround myself with luxury and love life, and even like some people may say you only love it cause its expensive, so be it, whatever turns my crank, and if that is the only thing I'd be getting, I'd still be happy.
Bottom line is there is no need to come across arrogant, and go over your post before you do post, so that you at least try to be polite, instead of "barfing" on something another user had said. With grain of salt - yes, aggression - no. And that is what makes this forum the best, well, most of the time.
Bottom line is there is no need to come across arrogant, and go over your post before you do post, so that you at least try to be polite, instead of "barfing" on something another user had said. With grain of salt - yes, aggression - no. And that is what makes this forum the best, well, most of the time.
#44
#1. I apologize for the sarcasm, figured that a sense of humour was welcome. The only problem I had was that, even as of right now, we are way off topic. This thread should be retitled. You speak for everyone when you say that "we take pride..." but yet I retaliated strictly based on the unpolite response I got 
#2. Did you READ my post? Of course amps change the sound. But the point I was TRYING to make was that everything need to work together. You can't simply buy one component, no matter how high end it is, and expect the system to sound better by a large margin, as suggested earlier in this processor war. If you have a low quality portion of the system whether its the amp or deck, a processor is a.) a bandaid and b.) most likely not going to get the desired result. I have a difficult time thinking that an MX406 is going to produce poor quality sound.... 0.004% Signal to noise ratio? The deck doesn't need a processor, but if the listener feels that there are unnatural peaks and valleys in the frequency range due to the listening environment, a processor would allow for those adjustments. The perception I had reading this thread was that you need a processor, it sounds way better. That is not true for one, and for two, if someone has this deck, a processor, a top notch amp, and stock speakers, it's still going to sound like shat. Following the mantra that "you need a processor" for members that aren't seasoned in car A/V is going to lead to wasted cash. Moral of the story is to buy smart, and have your equipment installed by a reputable shop if you aren't able to do it yourself

#2. Did you READ my post? Of course amps change the sound. But the point I was TRYING to make was that everything need to work together. You can't simply buy one component, no matter how high end it is, and expect the system to sound better by a large margin, as suggested earlier in this processor war. If you have a low quality portion of the system whether its the amp or deck, a processor is a.) a bandaid and b.) most likely not going to get the desired result. I have a difficult time thinking that an MX406 is going to produce poor quality sound.... 0.004% Signal to noise ratio? The deck doesn't need a processor, but if the listener feels that there are unnatural peaks and valleys in the frequency range due to the listening environment, a processor would allow for those adjustments. The perception I had reading this thread was that you need a processor, it sounds way better. That is not true for one, and for two, if someone has this deck, a processor, a top notch amp, and stock speakers, it's still going to sound like shat. Following the mantra that "you need a processor" for members that aren't seasoned in car A/V is going to lead to wasted cash. Moral of the story is to buy smart, and have your equipment installed by a reputable shop if you aren't able to do it yourself
Last edited by RomanticMoments; 11-27-2009 at 03:18 PM.
#45
Sooooo, like the thread's title: "Look at this classic deck!"
http://www.swaqvalley.com/images/1987Supra/IMAGE003.jpg
Now THAT'S classic! LOL
http://www.swaqvalley.com/images/1987Supra/IMAGE003.jpg
Now THAT'S classic! LOL
#46
thats richard clark challenge is the first bit of information that has been thrown around on here that actually seems to have any kind of substance behind it other than personal opinion.
i'm still not agreeing either way, because i will not be fully convinced until i hear my own setup with multiple amps.
anyone have input for the other side?
....listening to what people say and reading that article, it sound as if sonic signatures shouldn't necassarily be attributed to the amp itself, but rather its ability to integrate with your system and how it will perform in your cars environment.
....and yes that is one classic deck! lol
i'm still not agreeing either way, because i will not be fully convinced until i hear my own setup with multiple amps.
anyone have input for the other side?
....listening to what people say and reading that article, it sound as if sonic signatures shouldn't necassarily be attributed to the amp itself, but rather its ability to integrate with your system and how it will perform in your cars environment.
....and yes that is one classic deck! lol
#47
The amps job is to amp. That's it. It's job is not to change the sound. Now, that's not to say that they don't change the sound, because they do. The MOSFET system was designed to eliminate noise in the amplification process, hence why they are used for audio. Let's say amp #1 is a Ford Fiesta. It takes you where you need to go much faster than walking. Now we have amp #2, a Ferrari... Much faster, much nicer, but still does the EXACT same job. Point a to point b. Problem with sports cars, much like amps, there are TONS of good and bad, at varying prices and varying performances. It is, suffice it to say, trail by error. Everyone hears their own way
#48

Perhaps one could opine that you are lead by the nose....
Here's a question - Who here has actually participated in an ABX test of amplifiers? Not hooking up amps and then "drive around for a day or two, you start to realize whether the sound is better or worse" but right now, 1, 2, X testing? If amps are DRASTICALLY different as some believe, then it should be simple to tell.
See I used to be a follower. I spewed all that septage about this amp this and that amp that. Then I did the testing. I was confident. I failed - as did everyone else that day. NOW who forms opinion from online BS?
Yet, no one has been able to yet... Address that Sasha - why, out of all the people tested over the last 20+ years in ABX comparisons of amplifiers has not one person ever been able to consistently tell the difference between any two amps? I'm waiting, make it good..

Oh - and where's the chart?

#49
Dukk, what exactly are you suggesting gets tested? What tests did you run? Power output? Because like I mentioned, everyone has different tastes in what is "good" sound, so I'm curious to know what you tested. I'm not referring to how much an amplifier can amplify before it clips, but when your test amps are running clean sound, how are you determining which amp sounds "better"? Did you just run sweeps and see how flat the response was? Because if that's the case, there are huge variances in amps. Hell, read a couple issues of Performance Auto And Sound and you can see that. Not one amp will produce the exact same response time and time again, even individual amps vary, you need to test them a multitude of times to get a definitive result. Even two amps of the same model and year can produce not only different outputs but also different frequency responses