Look at this classic deck!
11-28-2009, 02:04 AM
#61
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11
[QUOTE=Sasha;526159] I dont whether to feel bad for myself or others who cant hear it, cause I may be forever damned to buy expensive stuff, and those who cant a difference can spend their money elsewhere. Well, it makes no difference, I am happy with my expensive taste at every level of my lifestyle, and if I can afford it I will get it. I try to surround myself with luxury and love life, and even like some people may say you only love it cause its expensive, so be it, whatever turns my crank, and if that is the only thing I'd be getting, I'd still be happy.
QUOTE]
I like this.
Btw, I like the hybrid clarus from you, thanks.
QUOTE]
I like this.
Btw, I like the hybrid clarus from you, thanks.
Last edited by dino5666; 11-28-2009 at 02:09 AM.
11-28-2009, 03:41 AM
#62
[QUOTE=dino5666;526370]
Thanks Dino. That was good times too. I like your taste in gear. And yeah Clarus is a really nice set 
I dont whether to feel bad for myself or others who cant hear it, cause I may be forever damned to buy expensive stuff, and those who cant a difference can spend their money elsewhere. Well, it makes no difference, I am happy with my expensive taste at every level of my lifestyle, and if I can afford it I will get it. I try to surround myself with luxury and love life, and even like some people may say you only love it cause its expensive, so be it, whatever turns my crank, and if that is the only thing I'd be getting, I'd still be happy.
QUOTE]
I like this.
Btw, I like the hybrid clarus from you, thanks.
QUOTE]
I like this.
Btw, I like the hybrid clarus from you, thanks.
11-28-2009, 08:01 AM
#63
500 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 849
pretty dang zany group eh? I think we covered your point OK... did we answer any questions you had to your satisfaction? If not we can hold off bickering for a bit...
folks have been saying "get back on topic" but the original poster was pretty quiet on this thread (Darin was, no doubt, eating popcorn and watching the fun). BTW McIntosh clams 3v out on this unit according to my owners manual (my earliest posts were on topic). It has a tone control at 10K and 50 Hz but that is about it for features. it has a front to rear fader for the RCA outs. There is a really nice DC to DC converter though, well made well designed BASIC HU... sonically it can play with the big boys from any perspective except altering the signal from the CD.
folks have been saying "get back on topic" but the original poster was pretty quiet on this thread (Darin was, no doubt, eating popcorn and watching the fun). BTW McIntosh clams 3v out on this unit according to my owners manual (my earliest posts were on topic). It has a tone control at 10K and 50 Hz but that is about it for features. it has a front to rear fader for the RCA outs. There is a really nice DC to DC converter though, well made well designed BASIC HU... sonically it can play with the big boys from any perspective except altering the signal from the CD.
11-28-2009, 10:47 PM
#64
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
Hard Data > Experience
Dukk, I have no doubt in your level of experience. You had asked about charts previously, but you kinda shot yourself in the foot by saying that you simply listened to them. That's not to say that people can hear the difference, though, charts or not. Like I've said before, everyone has seperate listening tastes so even if I put a graph/chart in front of you and said, "SEE!!! HA! They are different!" Is that going to change your mind? Nope. It just proves they don't sound exactly the same, right? But whether you hear the difference or not is another story. It's not just tastes either, it's a physical thing. Experience can teach you what to listen for, but (especially with age
) it doesn't mean you can actually hear it.
Dukk, I have no doubt in your level of experience. You had asked about charts previously, but you kinda shot yourself in the foot by saying that you simply listened to them. That's not to say that people can hear the difference, though, charts or not. Like I've said before, everyone has seperate listening tastes so even if I put a graph/chart in front of you and said, "SEE!!! HA! They are different!" Is that going to change your mind? Nope. It just proves they don't sound exactly the same, right? But whether you hear the difference or not is another story. It's not just tastes either, it's a physical thing. Experience can teach you what to listen for, but (especially with age
) it doesn't mean you can actually hear it.IF one was to believe that all amps have certain sonic characteristics then how could one even arbitrarily say that AmpA is better or worse than AmpB? Would it not be more prudent to try to match the characteristics of the amp to the characteristics of both the source and the speakers? See, this is what people who really know what they are doing do. They don't just regurgitate crap they pickup online.
Or maybe I'm wayyyy off base here. Sasha - what long term listening have you done with the Alpine compared to the Audison to form YOUR OWN personal opinion of the two. My guess: zero, but some guy on some forum said...
Hi John, about time you showed up. Too bad it looks like you're in the mood for some jousting. Maybe another time
I have nothing further to contribute to this thread.
11-29-2009, 04:33 AM
#65
Wow, still angry...
Seriously? You need to know how I came to those conclusions? Simple, I ran the same set-up for a couple of years and I went through so many amps, and still have a few that are not even listed in my for sale thread. Someone on here called me an amp/subwoofer , and anyone else who knows me a little understands where that comes from. And so happens I did compare PDX's, and many many others. Now, go chew on a bone, dog.
Seriously? You need to know how I came to those conclusions? Simple, I ran the same set-up for a couple of years and I went through so many amps, and still have a few that are not even listed in my for sale thread. Someone on here called me an amp/subwoofer , and anyone else who knows me a little understands where that comes from. And so happens I did compare PDX's, and many many others. Now, go chew on a bone, dog.
Last edited by Sasha; 11-29-2009 at 04:48 AM.
11-29-2009, 02:10 PM
#66
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Well Dukk-a-roo I was letting the thread run it course, seeing what new topics could be brought into the stale arguments and see who had something to bring to the table (I dont use the same arguments since i try to go with different technical or philosophical points each time).
11-29-2009, 02:41 PM
#67
Well Dukk-a-roo I was letting the thread run it course, seeing what new topics could be brought into the stale arguments and see who had something to bring to the table (I dont use the same arguments since i try to go with different technical or philosophical points each time).
I offered the OP to try out my amp, so that he can see what he likes best, and that is how committed I am to making this forum a better place by helping each other out. I have spent my money and a lot of effort to come to these conclusions, and offered someone my time and my resources in exchange of potential gratitude for learning something for themselves. Perhaps Dukk is jealous cause I can allocate more funds to this hobby than him. I dont know what his problem is, aside from being an aggressive wiener.
BTW, my friend just got a VRX installed, and I have not heard it yet, and he is estatic, and says he is now sure he wants to run all VRX's. We do a lot of testing in his car, cause of the ease of his set-up style. And he admits himself he does not have as good of ears as me. We love the same style of music, and he is amazed how I can tell whose production it is just by hearing it, because some of the major players have their signature sound style, and it has nothing to do with sound quality as that is a prerequisite. So admittedly, he does not have the ears I do, and yet he is blown away by VRX performance. I dont even have to hear the VRX to know that noone will complain about it's competency. This will be my first VRX I would hear on a familiar set-up. I am just as happy as he is, as we both feel we received a great addition to our family. I've converted many many friends to getting higher end amps and every single one of them cant thank me enough, as they too experienced a vast improvement over their previous amps on the same set-up. I always had great results recommending amps from Audison, DLS, Tru, Arc, and even JL, and yes I have tried out all these amps except their entry level stuff. These companies offer amps that sound absolutely amazing and can be had for not so much if bought used and there are always a few floating around.
Last edited by Sasha; 11-29-2009 at 03:15 PM.
11-29-2009, 04:37 PM
#68
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
For the record Sasha - I rarely get angry and bantering with someone like you surely won't do it. I've asked you several direct questions now though and you have answered none of them (well you almost answered one) but rather began insulting me as it is obvious that you cannot answer them. YOU are the one retorting with insults and negative attitude. Why not just answer the questions?
Call me a name or discredit me again though, and I'll show you what a douche I can be. Get my drift sunshine?
I suggest you take your own advice.
Call me a name or discredit me again though, and I'll show you what a douche I can be. Get my drift sunshine?
I suggest you take your own advice.
11-29-2009, 05:37 PM
#69
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
as stated by Romanticmoments an amps job is to amplify, in theory the purpose of the amp to be the straight wire with gain. I think there are a couple points here to be made on that
if an amp were ever to succeed and be a straight wire with gain, that would mean the amplification scheme would be singular, that is, ALWAYS the same. As it is we have amps available with different electrical designs and different circuit layouts for the same design. We also have amps with different amplification techniques (tube vs transistor and transistor vs transistor (bipolar, mosfet, IC, fet) multi stage amplification and single stage. We have global, staged, zoned feedback as well as feed forward and no feedback and that certainly affects distortion levels as well as the damping of the amplifier. By simply moving certain sensitive components on a circuit board you can significantly alter the operating performance of the circuit as a whole.
Amplifiers do not sound the same, they are not designed to sound the same and are purposely built to perform to a price point. Bob Carver proved this by using a concept he called nullification to electrically alter the sound of his reasonably priced amp till it performed similar to and sounded very much like a mega-buck amplifier. The Carver (sunfire) amp was then marketed as a low cost alternative to high priced exotics.
I dont know where this lone resistor crap comes from but I do not believe the sound of an amp is determined by a single potentiometer sorry.
Audio is a hobby and should make you happy, when you get caught up in the minutia and start getting ticked off it is an obsession. The term audiophile was intended to be a positive term as it means lover of sound or music. The term audiophile is currently connotated with elitism and bad science. I am afraid many of the things that make a difference are simply not fully defined, and there isn't enough $ to fully prove out theories and develop formal test procedures. The marketing people have had more affect on us then they should.
Sasha- dont equate price with performance
if an amp were ever to succeed and be a straight wire with gain, that would mean the amplification scheme would be singular, that is, ALWAYS the same. As it is we have amps available with different electrical designs and different circuit layouts for the same design. We also have amps with different amplification techniques (tube vs transistor and transistor vs transistor (bipolar, mosfet, IC, fet) multi stage amplification and single stage. We have global, staged, zoned feedback as well as feed forward and no feedback and that certainly affects distortion levels as well as the damping of the amplifier. By simply moving certain sensitive components on a circuit board you can significantly alter the operating performance of the circuit as a whole.
Amplifiers do not sound the same, they are not designed to sound the same and are purposely built to perform to a price point. Bob Carver proved this by using a concept he called nullification to electrically alter the sound of his reasonably priced amp till it performed similar to and sounded very much like a mega-buck amplifier. The Carver (sunfire) amp was then marketed as a low cost alternative to high priced exotics.
I dont know where this lone resistor crap comes from but I do not believe the sound of an amp is determined by a single potentiometer sorry.
Audio is a hobby and should make you happy, when you get caught up in the minutia and start getting ticked off it is an obsession. The term audiophile was intended to be a positive term as it means lover of sound or music. The term audiophile is currently connotated with elitism and bad science. I am afraid many of the things that make a difference are simply not fully defined, and there isn't enough $ to fully prove out theories and develop formal test procedures. The marketing people have had more affect on us then they should.
Sasha- dont equate price with performance
11-29-2009, 06:43 PM
#70
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
Ok, ok - I know we've discussed this at length John and I believe that, while we disagree here and there, we respect eachothers point of view. Since this always boils down to something of a stalemate, I'll meet you half way - amplifiers do not sound the same, but nobody thus far has been able to prove they sound different, within the confines of the test anyway.
fair enough?
fair enough?
