Look at this classic deck!
11-27-2009, 03:57 PM
#51
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
^ I would love the opportunity! Really, aside from when I have to deal with a sheep, I'm a pretty level guy. The best I have been able to use to compare independently were $7k Martin Logans. When I worked at the indy store that sold them we would spend days comparing setups.
RM - just sound man. Two amps, output level matched with a DMM, playing fullrange music on speakers. A! ok. B! ok. X! ...umm.. hmmm..
Experience > reading.
RM - just sound man. Two amps, output level matched with a DMM, playing fullrange music on speakers. A! ok. B! ok. X! ...umm.. hmmm..
Experience > reading.
11-27-2009, 04:22 PM
#52
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 730
Hard Data > Experience
Dukk, I have no doubt in your level of experience. You had asked about charts previously, but you kinda shot yourself in the foot by saying that you simply listened to them. That's not to say that people can hear the difference, though, charts or not. Like I've said before, everyone has seperate listening tastes so even if I put a graph/chart in front of you and said, "SEE!!! HA! They are different!" Is that going to change your mind? Nope. It just proves they don't sound exactly the same, right? But whether you hear the difference or not is another story. It's not just tastes either, it's a physical thing. Experience can teach you what to listen for, but (especially with age
) it doesn't mean you can actually hear it.
Dukk, I have no doubt in your level of experience. You had asked about charts previously, but you kinda shot yourself in the foot by saying that you simply listened to them. That's not to say that people can hear the difference, though, charts or not. Like I've said before, everyone has seperate listening tastes so even if I put a graph/chart in front of you and said, "SEE!!! HA! They are different!" Is that going to change your mind? Nope. It just proves they don't sound exactly the same, right? But whether you hear the difference or not is another story. It's not just tastes either, it's a physical thing. Experience can teach you what to listen for, but (especially with age
) it doesn't mean you can actually hear it.
Last edited by RomanticMoments; 11-27-2009 at 04:33 PM.
11-27-2009, 04:24 PM
#53
I dont have time for this, and I am just getting more irate. I am out.
To Dukk: You pissed me off more and more with each comment you made negating my attempts to make you understand that you may have crossed the line with your use of certain emoticons. So finally I lost my cool and let that transportation remark out, but I could tell that this is a waste of time, you're not going to see what I mean, so I am not going to go over any of this with you. If there is anything I did or say wrong, I apologize and take everything back. I dont need any of this negativity, and I feel the only way to cure this is dropping it from my end. I have nothing to prove.
To RomanticMoments: I like to use T.A. and that is a very important feature for me in a processor, cause speakers all have different distance in the car environment, and to me it does not sound good enough without everything aligned.
I have nothing further to contribute to this thread.
To Dukk: You pissed me off more and more with each comment you made negating my attempts to make you understand that you may have crossed the line with your use of certain emoticons. So finally I lost my cool and let that transportation remark out, but I could tell that this is a waste of time, you're not going to see what I mean, so I am not going to go over any of this with you. If there is anything I did or say wrong, I apologize and take everything back. I dont need any of this negativity, and I feel the only way to cure this is dropping it from my end. I have nothing to prove.
To RomanticMoments: I like to use T.A. and that is a very important feature for me in a processor, cause speakers all have different distance in the car environment, and to me it does not sound good enough without everything aligned.
I have nothing further to contribute to this thread.
11-27-2009, 04:32 PM
#54
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 730
Sasha: Then for you, a deck or processor that gives you Time Alignment fits your tastes. It just sounded to me like you were suggesting that jstoner should have one as well, and so should everyone. Not trying to ruffle your feathers 
11-27-2009, 05:53 PM
#55
Well, yeah, that is MY opinion, and I stand behind it, and I strongly believe he will benefit from it, and until he does put one in to see if it does or not, he will never know. I am willing to bet that if he gets a nice processor, he will not be getting rid of it. Perhaps some people did not get full potential out of their processing experiences in the past, and may need to give it another shot. A good example was the first time I tried going active and had such bad results that I have given up and said to myself that this is overrated, and people told me I have not had the proper experience, and I proved myself wrong and now love active since we set up my friends system and everything worked out perfect, and I did all the tuning, and had great results, which makes me wonder what exactly went wrong the first time. And that could be a similar case with T.A. among other settings for other people. Same with amps. The experiences I share are mine, and not from reading forums, and that is why nobody can change my mind about these things. I havent met anyone yet, who said properly tuned system with T.A. sounded better with T.A. taken out. And I cant imagine how it could one vs the other on the same install.
Last edited by Sasha; 11-27-2009 at 05:58 PM.
11-27-2009, 09:01 PM
#56
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
well there yeah go you've gone and hurt each others feelings... and here it is less than than 30 days till Christmas too.
So we have opted to do down this road again, could I please ask for civility and mature behavior. This topic and a couple others seem to push emotional buttons as I believe it attacks peoples 'foundation of belief'. As a consequence responses are emotional rather than rational. Please show a modicum of respect for others as this dialog often involves positions opposed to your own and it is a wonderful opportunity to learn new things on both sides of the issue.
point of correction RC never claimed all amps sound the same, and that is not what his test proves anyway. There are inherent flaws in the test so the test, in and of itself, does not qualify as scientific proof of anything. It does open the door to interesting discussions and makes one challenge your own belief structure as well as others beliefs.
As always I recommend each person tests for himself, and develops their own conclusion.
So we have opted to do down this road again, could I please ask for civility and mature behavior. This topic and a couple others seem to push emotional buttons as I believe it attacks peoples 'foundation of belief'. As a consequence responses are emotional rather than rational. Please show a modicum of respect for others as this dialog often involves positions opposed to your own and it is a wonderful opportunity to learn new things on both sides of the issue.
point of correction RC never claimed all amps sound the same, and that is not what his test proves anyway. There are inherent flaws in the test so the test, in and of itself, does not qualify as scientific proof of anything. It does open the door to interesting discussions and makes one challenge your own belief structure as well as others beliefs.
As always I recommend each person tests for himself, and develops their own conclusion.
11-27-2009, 09:36 PM
#57
point of correction RC never claimed all amps sound the same, and that is not what his test proves anyway. There are inherent flaws in the test so the test, in and of itself, does not qualify as scientific proof of anything. It does open the door to interesting discussions and makes one challenge your own belief structure as well as others beliefs.
As always I recommend each person tests for himself, and develops their own conclusion.
My car is for me and if I chose to spend more money then the next guy to get the sound I'm looking for, I will.
Bottom line IMHO all amps have a differnet sonic signatures. If I'm part of an elite groupd people that can only hear this - then kudos to me.
Last edited by avidedtr; 11-27-2009 at 09:39 PM.
11-27-2009, 11:17 PM
#59
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
pretty dang zany group eh? I think we covered your point OK... did we answer any questions you had to your satisfaction? If not we can hold off bickering for a bit...
folks have been saying "get back on topic" but the original poster was pretty quiet on this thread (Darin was, no doubt, eating popcorn and watching the fun). BTW McIntosh clams 3v out on this unit according to my owners manual (my earliest posts were on topic). It has a tone control at 10K and 50 Hz but that is about it for features. it has a front to rear fader for the RCA outs. There is a really nice DC to DC converter though, well made well designed BASIC HU... sonically it can play with the big boys from any perspective except altering the signal from the CD.
folks have been saying "get back on topic" but the original poster was pretty quiet on this thread (Darin was, no doubt, eating popcorn and watching the fun). BTW McIntosh clams 3v out on this unit according to my owners manual (my earliest posts were on topic). It has a tone control at 10K and 50 Hz but that is about it for features. it has a front to rear fader for the RCA outs. There is a really nice DC to DC converter though, well made well designed BASIC HU... sonically it can play with the big boys from any perspective except altering the signal from the CD.
11-27-2009, 11:41 PM
#60
pretty dang zany group eh? I think we covered your point OK... did we answer any questions you had to your satisfaction? If not we can hold off bickering for a bit...
folks have been saying "get back on topic" but the original poster was pretty quiet on this thread (Darin was, no doubt, eating popcorn and watching the fun). BTW McIntosh clams 3v out on this unit according to my owners manual (my earliest posts were on topic). It has a tone control at 10K and 50 Hz but that is about it for features. it has a front to rear fader for the RCA outs. There is a really nice DC to DC converter though, well made well designed BASIC HU... sonically it can play with the big boys from any perspective except altering the signal from the CD.
folks have been saying "get back on topic" but the original poster was pretty quiet on this thread (Darin was, no doubt, eating popcorn and watching the fun). BTW McIntosh clams 3v out on this unit according to my owners manual (my earliest posts were on topic). It has a tone control at 10K and 50 Hz but that is about it for features. it has a front to rear fader for the RCA outs. There is a really nice DC to DC converter though, well made well designed BASIC HU... sonically it can play with the big boys from any perspective except altering the signal from the CD.
