Hardwrkr

iTrader: (5)

Back it up with some technical info on why this is a bad design then (it's ghey doesn't do much for your arguement). And also, point out why the SA-12 and the Dcon are better (and we're talking about the new Type R so any of your thoughts on the old design are out-the-window). I'm not an Alpine fanboy nor do I dislike the other drivers, I'd like to see you back up your statement though in the interest of the OP.

OP - the multi-roll surround is used to maximize cone area. More cone area=more bass. These big fat surrounds on the other drivers just makes the cone area smaller. The Alpine has much more Xmax than the others as well so they can't even use the excuse of needing the big fat surround because of high-excursion.

Lord Huggington

iTrader: (1)

Don't you mean in the interest of you?

I imagine if they were upfire something could get caught inbetween the rolls and it'd mark up or puncture the surround - that's why I don't like them, although the surrounds are tough. I'd rather not have one because over time they'd lose rigidity. I've heard a bunch of old designs in lots of different boxes, none impressed me for output or SQ. You think they changed much with the 20% depth reduction? What else did they change? The DCON has *nearly* the same xmax and better efficiency (89dB & 16.5mm), where are you reading the Type-R has much more xmax? You mean all 1.7mm of it? For the price of 2 Type-R's he could have 3 DCONS, which would be the clear winner if he can afford the space, handles the same power yet wouldn't need as much for more output, more money saved.

The SA-12 is $50 more than the Type-R, but it's recommended for 1-1.5 cube ported. Toss up if he can't fit a big box.

How much cone area is saved? Enough to care about or is it marketing hype? Why isn't everyone using multi-roll?

Why do people recommend mainstream brands and then turn around to say things like "spend 4x the money by supporting your local dealer"? What about supporting the better brands that everyone likes more or would you rather walk into a shop and only ever see over-priced Kicker, JL, and Alpine instead of something like Digital Designs? Why would I even need a middleman?

Support the one you like, spend less when possible.

That's why you shouldn't buy the Type-R over the DCON.

toyopl

I recommended SSA and Sundown because they companies are amazing, you can talk to actual owners of the company and you can get any suport you want.
Sundown for example hand checks every piece of amp/sub getting out of their hands, now that's quality, and if you ever run into faulty product, they gladly exchange it and even will upgrade you in some cases.

That's why I would pick SSA or Sundown over Alpine/JL/JBL....etc

Denonite

iTrader: (1)

not sure where you guys shop...but brand new type r 1243D can be had at your door for under 160.00 cdn each...I know cause I bought 2 of them 3 months ago and the company sells them everyday. As far as specs...new type R has 20mm xmax, 600 watts rms (everyone knows they can handle nearly 2x that regularly), and sound even better than before...if you can't make a type r sound good..you don't know what you are doing! At 160.00 total cost...I don't think the dcon can even shine it's shoes, and the sundown is much more with less excursion. Unless those brands are available from ebay at a lower price...not even a fair fight! On top of that, your non-car audio interested friends still know Alpine is high end car audio...sundown they never heard of, and ssa might as well be pyramid or some other flea market brand as nobody has ever heard of them...0 bragging rights (for the record that means to me as I'm old and don't care what people think, but for you young'ans that may be a factor)!

Hardwrkr

iTrader: (5)

Nope. I won't be listening to your suggestion but you're responding to someone new to the scene so they deserve a qualified answer.

The Alpine has 21mm xmax which is not "nearly" 16.5 (not the 18 you claim), has a whole new motor (not just a shallower depth), and is basically a whole new driver. So you're against a driver you know nothing about nor have ever heard?

"the surround would lose rigidity so I'd rather not have one" - um yeah unlike the "rigid" half-roll surrounds?

Denonite

iTrader: (1)

There are a few major changes from the last generation...which were very good subs as well...most notably: 20-21mm xmax, 144oz magnet vs 109 oz, 2.6" vs. 2" voice coil, and 600watts vs 500 watts rms.

Lord Huggington

iTrader: (1)

No, I havn't heard it. I didn't see "whole new motor" or anything like that on the site, just depth reduction. I got the 18.2mm from the AlpineUSA site.

I meant that with all those curves it's more likely for it to warp over time, not that I know, it just seems like it.

Yes, I'm against suggesting Alpine, it's not like it'd be anyone's first recommendation .

wasted911

iTrader: (2)

Alpine. They've earned respect, have AMAZING support from head office. Not just one guy answering the phone when he can.

And over the counter warranty. That is all.

n0catchyname

Given you are old (by your own account, I actually don't know) and don't care what people think, I'll let your bragging rights advice slide. It's actually works the complete opposite of the way you think it may (in my area anyway). I would give zero bragging rights to anyone running Alpine, JL, or Kicker based only on their gear (bragging rights for setup may be different but gear oriented = zero, unless they are top of the top line) and expect zero in return. Not because they aren't great products, I'm sure they are, but that's what everyone and their sister runs, other than Sony or other cheaper brands. Bragging rights come into play when you have something no one has (or, at least, very few, depending on the population). The rarer the equipment, the better. It shows you did your homework and made a wise informed choice as opposed to just getting what seemed to be the 'best' option. If anyone second guesses a certain brand because they haven't heard of it there is always google and youtube, which is accessible by many virtually anywhere, to prove why one made a certain choice.

On Topic - I have no experience with any of the gear mentioned and therefore cannot make an informed opinion. I'll leave that to the others.

brandon_12345

ive owned my fair share of not so well known brands and also a lot of alpine gear both new and old(10+ years) they have always made good product that performs very well, my last two subs have been type r 12's one of the last gen and one of the newest generation and they sound amazing to me, the reason ive chosen to buy them two in a row is because my local dealer does over the counter exchanges on blown equipment right away, the stuff ive bought online from these smaller brand would need to be shipped back to them and id have to go weeks without my equipment. The OP never said that he wanted something cheap or more affordable, if you have the cash for alpine and you have a good local dealer youd never be disappointed with their equipment and if you ever are you can bring it back and get it exchanged, simple as that