PPI's new line
01-24-2004, 12:23 PM
#51
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 866
The point about this post and why it got to this point was because of one person making a statment that he was happy that the PPI amp are now one ohm stable.
The reason he states that this is a good thing was because now he has more wiring flexability?
It got out of control to this point because he cant read or understand the many points 5 or so people have tried to make him understand.
As far as Adire goes, they were most likely making a great point but you just didnt understand them.
By posting the adire site as your knowledge base did nothing for me, as that site has been the source of the funniest **** ive read in most recent months [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
The reason he states that this is a good thing was because now he has more wiring flexability?
It got out of control to this point because he cant read or understand the many points 5 or so people have tried to make him understand.
As far as Adire goes, they were most likely making a great point but you just didnt understand them.
By posting the adire site as your knowledge base did nothing for me, as that site has been the source of the funniest **** ive read in most recent months [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
01-24-2004, 01:34 PM
#52
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 309
Okay sure
With RE's XBL^2 mids and two tweeters per side you can make your front stage keep up with your bass. Comps are nice, but there is maybe two of them per month tops for like six months of the year. For the rest of the time, I do an equal amount of low volume listening (when I have people in my car) and have it cranked for the rest of the time, because half of the appeal of subs to me is the tactile sensation. Before my car got wrecked, getting my *** kicked by subs was great fun and it was great to have everyone get out of the car just beaming
Big bass makes me giddy
1 ohm is nice. Most of your sound quality comes from the subs anyways - your amp only has so much control over what it can do (they make the most difference on transients and probably layering too). The neglible difference 1 ohm makes in SQ is acceptable to me, so I'll run my amps at 1 ohm all day ...
You were the one who didn't get my point, slownlow. You can't always get the voice coils you need/want/whatever so for that reason I think 1 ohm stable amps are great because you will always have some extra leeway to open up your options a bit. That was all I was saying.
[ January 24, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Bumpin' Nova ]
With RE's XBL^2 mids and two tweeters per side you can make your front stage keep up with your bass. Comps are nice, but there is maybe two of them per month tops for like six months of the year. For the rest of the time, I do an equal amount of low volume listening (when I have people in my car) and have it cranked for the rest of the time, because half of the appeal of subs to me is the tactile sensation. Before my car got wrecked, getting my *** kicked by subs was great fun and it was great to have everyone get out of the car just beaming
Big bass makes me giddy
1 ohm is nice. Most of your sound quality comes from the subs anyways - your amp only has so much control over what it can do (they make the most difference on transients and probably layering too). The neglible difference 1 ohm makes in SQ is acceptable to me, so I'll run my amps at 1 ohm all day ... You were the one who didn't get my point, slownlow. You can't always get the voice coils you need/want/whatever so for that reason I think 1 ohm stable amps are great because you will always have some extra leeway to open up your options a bit. That was all I was saying.
[ January 24, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Bumpin' Nova ]
01-24-2004, 01:38 PM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
What if your subs have single 8 ohm coils, an amp that makes 1000 watts into 1 ohm would only make about 250 watts into 4 ohms.
You should always match the current amp you have to the current subs you have to get the best performance [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
You should always match the current amp you have to the current subs you have to get the best performance [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
01-24-2004, 02:12 PM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
What do I win?
And Hey BumpinNova, are you gonna compete this summer, I will be up in Calgary for sure for some IASCA comps, you should definately look into competing, in the Street X class, so far there is just me and another guy from Calgary so it would be cool to have more competitors in that class around here! [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
And Hey BumpinNova, are you gonna compete this summer, I will be up in Calgary for sure for some IASCA comps, you should definately look into competing, in the Street X class, so far there is just me and another guy from Calgary so it would be cool to have more competitors in that class around here! [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
01-24-2004, 03:34 PM
#56
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
1. Most of your sound quality comes from the subs anyways - 2. your amp only has so much control over what it can do (3. they make the most difference on transients and probably layering too).
2. -I disagree, the amp is in complete control of what it can do it is the electrical driver, that is, the limits of the amp determine the capabilities of everything downstream (the EMF produced by the woofer is part of the equation but an amp with ample design margins will dominate electrically).
3. - Transient behavior (a mechanical evolution) will be dominated by the speaker in question. All amps are fast it is the speakers design (spider, surround, magnet, coils) that determines how quickly it is capable of reacting to an electric signal.
4. - I concur the amp will tend to dictate layering, but the transient response of the speaker in question will determine how well overtones and overall spatial characteristics. See question 1 this has nothing to with the woofer dominated discussion.
BTW get a new Physics Prof or read more books.
01-24-2004, 04:10 PM
#57
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Bumpin Nova I appologise if I sound like I am beating up on you, you do care and that matters.
BTW the line about speakers in series and the motor generator effect (or servo effect) is more valid for speakers in parallel. And the driver least likely to be affected is... the subwoofer. Though it has the larger potential generator it will move the least due to the fact that 1 the human voice isn’t that loud, and 2. The microphone, if you will, is designed to operate at low frequencies and our voices operate at much higher frequencies, 3. Due to the size of the windings it will be poor at making EMF this way.
Basically the low impedance of the woofer really trashes the efficiency of the woofer (remember we don’t routinely measure speaker efficiency). Amps running at 1 ohm will always perform worse than if they were run into higher impedances (but now I am repeating others points). Amps are made to drive 1 ohm impedances to answer a consumer need, not because it is a good way to run an amp. The consumer market desires LOUD BASS one ticket to this is to run a lot of speakers in parallel, the limiting factor being the amount of amps that can be delivered. Basically a 1 ohm or 2 ohm stable amp is an amp with a lot of current production (a lot of transistors with big heat sinks ($$)). They know the amp will fail faster and perform poorer but the manufacturer must do what his customer base demands (in other words it isn’t done to improve SQ).
And I am happy PPI can run at 1 ohm…. Of course I would be VERY happy if they would send the power plug they promised (or the one I ordered) in November!!!
BTW the line about speakers in series and the motor generator effect (or servo effect) is more valid for speakers in parallel. And the driver least likely to be affected is... the subwoofer. Though it has the larger potential generator it will move the least due to the fact that 1 the human voice isn’t that loud, and 2. The microphone, if you will, is designed to operate at low frequencies and our voices operate at much higher frequencies, 3. Due to the size of the windings it will be poor at making EMF this way.
Basically the low impedance of the woofer really trashes the efficiency of the woofer (remember we don’t routinely measure speaker efficiency). Amps running at 1 ohm will always perform worse than if they were run into higher impedances (but now I am repeating others points). Amps are made to drive 1 ohm impedances to answer a consumer need, not because it is a good way to run an amp. The consumer market desires LOUD BASS one ticket to this is to run a lot of speakers in parallel, the limiting factor being the amount of amps that can be delivered. Basically a 1 ohm or 2 ohm stable amp is an amp with a lot of current production (a lot of transistors with big heat sinks ($$)). They know the amp will fail faster and perform poorer but the manufacturer must do what his customer base demands (in other words it isn’t done to improve SQ).
And I am happy PPI can run at 1 ohm…. Of course I would be VERY happy if they would send the power plug they promised (or the one I ordered) in November!!!
01-25-2004, 12:30 AM
#59
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 309
Alright I finally get what you are saying now
but then again about 12 beers has helped me be receptive by god I shouldn't be even talking right now
Street X ?? Is that the IASCA SQ comps or is it SPL comps? I haven't kept up much with their rules so please enlighten me I was probably going to get some sort of super-high-end sub whether its the TiPro scarlemthunggina whatever his name is is seliing or two XXX 15s. a quad voice coil like the tipro is at such a huge disadvantage it is not even fgunny, but if i was to be really serious about competting i would probably get two XXX 15s because they will hit so loud and are supposed to have just amazing SQ
as far as i know most of the sq comes from subs, although amps do have a say in it, because between cone inertia and all that sort of stuff and the spiders and suspension whatever oyu wanna call it modifies the linearity of the sub. for instance a really heavy cone on a sine wave will not move the same as a very light cone and will create some distoriton because it will not follow the wavelength properly or something because it will take more energy to make it move the other way, therefore making the sine wave shape more square (sort of like when you turn the distortion up on FruityKick in the new fruityloops)
i can't make a point right now but i feel like posting this anyways [img]tongue.gif[/img] i'll come back to this tomorrow and try to actually make sense
but then again about 12 beers has helped me be receptive by god I shouldn't be even talking right now
Street X ?? Is that the IASCA SQ comps or is it SPL comps? I haven't kept up much with their rules so please enlighten me
I was probably going to get some sort of super-high-end sub whether its the TiPro scarlemthunggina whatever his name is is seliing or two XXX 15s. a quad voice coil like the tipro is at such a huge disadvantage it is not even fgunny, but if i was to be really serious about competting i would probably get two XXX 15s because they will hit so loud and are supposed to have just amazing SQ as far as i know most of the sq comes from subs, although amps do have a say in it, because between cone inertia and all that sort of stuff and the spiders and suspension whatever oyu wanna call it modifies the linearity of the sub. for instance a really heavy cone on a sine wave will not move the same as a very light cone and will create some distoriton because it will not follow the wavelength properly or something because it will take more energy to make it move the other way, therefore making the sine wave shape more square (sort of like when you turn the distortion up on FruityKick in the new fruityloops)
i can't make a point right now
but i feel like posting this anyways [img]tongue.gif[/img] i'll come back to this tomorrow and try to actually make sense
