Sound Deadening
02-10-2009, 01:19 PM
#22
02-10-2009, 01:37 PM
#23
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,026
Perhaps the sound deadening showdown article has changed. he writes:
"This is the second version of Sound Deadener Showdown. I made a lot of mistakes the first time through. My ultimate recommendations were valid, but many of my assumptions were false - mostly because I gave too much credence to the manufacturers' claims. In the months since the first version I have done a lot more testing and have had the benefit of a number of bona fide experts - engineers, chemists and even a disgruntled employee from a company that makes some of these products."
"This is the second version of Sound Deadener Showdown. I made a lot of mistakes the first time through. My ultimate recommendations were valid, but many of my assumptions were false - mostly because I gave too much credence to the manufacturers' claims. In the months since the first version I have done a lot more testing and have had the benefit of a number of bona fide experts - engineers, chemists and even a disgruntled employee from a company that makes some of these products."
02-10-2009, 02:14 PM
#25
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,026
Useless?
His oven test is interesting to say the least. Seeing the results of those tests have convinced me of the merit of butyl products over asphalt - Water will boil before butyl products will let go.
I don't think that those results are useless . . . but I suppose that your opinion of me has already been formulated then
His oven test is interesting to say the least. Seeing the results of those tests have convinced me of the merit of butyl products over asphalt - Water will boil before butyl products will let go.
I don't think that those results are useless . . . but I suppose that your opinion of me has already been formulated then
02-10-2009, 02:34 PM
#26
oven test? this is one of the things i was talkin about. is your car as hot as an oven? is it at 180F? how about 500F? do you live in the dessert? how often do you see water boiling inside your car or in your trunk? unless you are applying the deadener ONTO your engine block (or your car's oven) that oven test is useless.
notice how there is no test of these products in termperatures of 50F - 120F. U know why? cuz they all perform the same at that point.
a more relevant test would be how these products hold up in a cold atmosphere, not an unrealistically hot one.
test relevancy is the key my friend. what if he also did a test as to how these products perfrom in a vacume atmosphere or how they perform under water or in outter space would you also base your decision on the outcomes of those results?
U know what im saying?
what's the use of a test when it uses a product in the way that is not intended?
if someone needs to sound deaded something at 180F to 500F I bet my bank account they are not going to use an auto motive sound deadener. They will probably use someothing that's ment for those temperatures.
notice how there is no test of these products in termperatures of 50F - 120F. U know why? cuz they all perform the same at that point.
a more relevant test would be how these products hold up in a cold atmosphere, not an unrealistically hot one.
test relevancy is the key my friend. what if he also did a test as to how these products perfrom in a vacume atmosphere or how they perform under water or in outter space would you also base your decision on the outcomes of those results?
U know what im saying?
what's the use of a test when it uses a product in the way that is not intended?
if someone needs to sound deaded something at 180F to 500F I bet my bank account they are not going to use an auto motive sound deadener. They will probably use someothing that's ment for those temperatures.
Last edited by Father Yuli; 02-10-2009 at 02:42 PM.
02-10-2009, 02:47 PM
#27
matter of fact, i have worked with sound deadeners that require 400F to be applied and cured. and i can tell you that it wasnt anything remotely close to any of the products in that guys' test. it wasnt tar or asphalt or any other compound that resembles anything from his test.
02-10-2009, 02:47 PM
#28
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
I've read that document and don't think much of it.
MY honest opinion - buy the best you can afford. If that is the stuff at Rona, then go for it. It will be fine for a floor, probably alright for a door, and a bad idea on a roof. For a roof or trunklid I really suggest buying the best vinyl based product you can find.
I find a lot of value in lining the backside of interior panels with trunkliner as well.
MY honest opinion - buy the best you can afford. If that is the stuff at Rona, then go for it. It will be fine for a floor, probably alright for a door, and a bad idea on a roof. For a roof or trunklid I really suggest buying the best vinyl based product you can find.
I find a lot of value in lining the backside of interior panels with trunkliner as well.
02-10-2009, 05:36 PM
#29
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Wow this got contentious
I think the question is what works and what works and is cheep
I have used asphalt products (20+ years ago not the car audio stuff the real roof stuff) and it was without value not peel and seal friggin tar and it stunk for a month or two then it cured
I have used Dynamat Extreme, I like how it sticks and how it works... didn't care so much for its price. It has a thick butyl layer. It cut the crap out of my hands.
I have used Second Skin, it sticks well but not as well as Dynamat, it has a thicker aluminum layer and a thinner butyl layer, its price was better than Dynamats but still pretty dear... A LOT fewer cuts on my hand but they were better quality cuts
Liquid damper... all of it is pricey (TOO PRICEY for its performance), it slumps (falls on vertical surfaces), and really doesn't work that well BUT it can be the perfect product in some applications
the key to damping is mass loading and surface contact (it must stick well) the key to stoping noise from entering or exiting the vehicle is something else but a mass load is part of it
I think the question is what works and what works and is cheep
I have used asphalt products (20+ years ago not the car audio stuff the real roof stuff) and it was without value not peel and seal friggin tar and it stunk for a month or two then it cured
I have used Dynamat Extreme, I like how it sticks and how it works... didn't care so much for its price. It has a thick butyl layer. It cut the crap out of my hands.
I have used Second Skin, it sticks well but not as well as Dynamat, it has a thicker aluminum layer and a thinner butyl layer, its price was better than Dynamats but still pretty dear... A LOT fewer cuts on my hand but they were better quality cuts
Liquid damper... all of it is pricey (TOO PRICEY for its performance), it slumps (falls on vertical surfaces), and really doesn't work that well BUT it can be the perfect product in some applications
the key to damping is mass loading and surface contact (it must stick well) the key to stoping noise from entering or exiting the vehicle is something else but a mass load is part of it
Last edited by JohnVroom; 02-10-2009 at 05:42 PM.
02-10-2009, 06:10 PM
#30
Yuli 160 degreesF happens alot on the painted surfaces of dark colored cars... which last I recalled is where ya stick the sound deadening matt to. I've seen too many cars with peel'n'seal and resisto rooing mat with black gobs of melted goo dripping off them onto trunk floors.. and one headliner I took down had all the matt melted to it and very little was still on the roof panel.
