Visonik sub amp: crap? or complete crap??
07-29-2010, 10:36 AM
#1
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 57
Visonik sub amp: crap? or complete crap??
Looking at picking up a Visonik something-or-other just to do me until I either can get my Phoenix Gold Tantrum 1200.1 fixed (worked for 2 hours and sounded fabulous) or find something better.
Kid hasn't given me the model # but he did send the specs. It's 800 RMS at 2 Ohms, so it should manage to drive my Type X. Tried it with one of those lower-end 500 watt Alpines on the weekend and the driver budged about half an inch and that was it--So it would appear I need gobs of power. If it's gobs of cheap power and hopefully only temporary, think that might do at least for a while?
Seems pretty clear the X needs stupid amounts of power. Anybody manage to drive one with less than 800 or 1K? I did hook it up to two channels of my Cadence ZRS-7504 bridged (300 watts) and it made sound--just not very much of it. But at least it worked, and better than the 500 watt Alpine. Any ideas why that would be? A guy also has a 400 watt (RMS at 2 Ohms) Kaption for sale, but I don't think it'll have the grunt I need.
Just wondering if I should grab this Visonik while I can and make do for now.
Kid hasn't given me the model # but he did send the specs. It's 800 RMS at 2 Ohms, so it should manage to drive my Type X. Tried it with one of those lower-end 500 watt Alpines on the weekend and the driver budged about half an inch and that was it--So it would appear I need gobs of power. If it's gobs of cheap power and hopefully only temporary, think that might do at least for a while?
Seems pretty clear the X needs stupid amounts of power. Anybody manage to drive one with less than 800 or 1K? I did hook it up to two channels of my Cadence ZRS-7504 bridged (300 watts) and it made sound--just not very much of it. But at least it worked, and better than the 500 watt Alpine. Any ideas why that would be? A guy also has a 400 watt (RMS at 2 Ohms) Kaption for sale, but I don't think it'll have the grunt I need.
Just wondering if I should grab this Visonik while I can and make do for now.
Last edited by dc23; 07-29-2010 at 10:41 AM.
07-29-2010, 11:39 AM
#2
Visonik isn't crap, Type-X's are inefficient. Most Visoniks are 1 ohm stable, does it do 1500W @ 1? If it does, use it at 1 ohm and keep the gains down, then sell the 1200. You might as well save your money and wait 2 weeks if the Visonik isn't 1 ohm stable.
Last edited by Lord Huggington; 07-29-2010 at 11:42 AM.
07-29-2010, 02:07 PM
#4
They're not that inefficient, and if you tried the amp with a type r and it barely moved, then there's something wrong with the amp or the sub. I had x's running on 400 watts in small sealed boxes and it was loud enough to shake the side mirrors, bounce the rear view mirror, and irritate people in my house. If an 800watt amp can't get an r to move...something is wrong...those subs pound with 500 watts.
07-29-2010, 03:42 PM
#5
50 Watt CAFz'r
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 57
Just to clarify: on the weekend I tried the Type X with an Alpine M500, and the driver lurched about half an inch and nothing else happened. This is the same amp that had just seemed to drive just fine the Type R I was selling its owner. He was running some kind of test tones through it and it was flapping wildly.
Then I hooked up the PG Tantrum 1200.1 and it sounded fabulous--until the next day when it just stopped working. But that's a story for another post. Just to make sure the problem wasn't with the X I hooked up the Cadence with its 300 watts and it drove the X, just not very loudly. Not sure why it would work even somewhat with 300 watts and not at all with 500 (from an amp which seemed to be working just fine) . I have been somewhat convinced that nothing less than 800 or 1kw will drive the X, but now I'm not so sure. I'm shying away from buying a 400 watt Kaption for this very reason.
So I'm planning on getting the Visonik tomorrow, even just as a stopgap. If the PG can be resurrected, great. Guess I'll keep the one I like better and sell the other. And I suppose it wouldn't hurt to at least look at the Kaption and hook it up to see if anything comes out. The guy's been trying to tell me it's 850 watts, but the manual clearly states 400 RMS at 2 Ohms.
Sound like a plan? Input? Suggestions? Am I wrong to assume based on my experience so far that the Type X is a massive pig for power instead of just a moderate one?
And note to rbgnwa45: Didn't think I could wire the Type X to 1 Ohm. Thought my only choices were 2 or 8. Have I missed something?
Then I hooked up the PG Tantrum 1200.1 and it sounded fabulous--until the next day when it just stopped working. But that's a story for another post. Just to make sure the problem wasn't with the X I hooked up the Cadence with its 300 watts and it drove the X, just not very loudly. Not sure why it would work even somewhat with 300 watts and not at all with 500 (from an amp which seemed to be working just fine) . I have been somewhat convinced that nothing less than 800 or 1kw will drive the X, but now I'm not so sure. I'm shying away from buying a 400 watt Kaption for this very reason.
So I'm planning on getting the Visonik tomorrow, even just as a stopgap. If the PG can be resurrected, great. Guess I'll keep the one I like better and sell the other. And I suppose it wouldn't hurt to at least look at the Kaption and hook it up to see if anything comes out. The guy's been trying to tell me it's 850 watts, but the manual clearly states 400 RMS at 2 Ohms.
Sound like a plan? Input? Suggestions? Am I wrong to assume based on my experience so far that the Type X is a massive pig for power instead of just a moderate one?
And note to rbgnwa45: Didn't think I could wire the Type X to 1 Ohm. Thought my only choices were 2 or 8. Have I missed something?
07-29-2010, 10:27 PM
#7
The Alpine M500 just didn't work at all? No sound after a little movement, or a 3dB audible loss?
Is this a 10 or a 12?
Even with approximately 82dB efficiency on the 10" it should have gotten decently loud on half it's RMS, so if that amp didn't make the sub move much than it's garbage. Maybe the voltage dropped and the amp didn't go into protect?
If someone told you an amp does 850 @ 1 when it's only 400 @ 2 than it's obvious that person ran it below recommended stability.
Is this a 10 or a 12?
Even with approximately 82dB efficiency on the 10" it should have gotten decently loud on half it's RMS, so if that amp didn't make the sub move much than it's garbage. Maybe the voltage dropped and the amp didn't go into protect?
If someone told you an amp does 850 @ 1 when it's only 400 @ 2 than it's obvious that person ran it below recommended stability.
07-30-2010, 09:49 PM
#8
50 Watt CAFz'r
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 57
It just didn't work at all. No sound after a little movement. Not a 3dB audible loss, not a 10 dB audible loss, an every dB audible loss.
It's a 12. Don't know that it didn't go into protect. Couldn't really see.
So I got the Visonik, and I don't think I like it very much. It only seems to be moderately happy with the gain turned all the way down, or close to it. If I start inching it up it gets to about a third of the way up then the amp goes into protect. When it is working, compared to what I remember of my glorious 2 hours with a functioning PG, it sounds like crap. Plus, most worrisome of all--it gets hot. Really, really hot. Within just a few minutes, too hot to touch for more than a second. Too hot for me to be comfortable about using it.
So what's going on here? I'm thinking this can't be right. Is the Visonik really as anemic, underpowered and overrated as many seem to have suggested? Is the Type X really that inefficient? Based on my extremely limited experience with both, and with car audio in general, it would seem so to me. Did I spoil myself with the PG? Is it a case of the Visonik's 800 watts at 2 Ohms (800 watts my *** I can't help thinking) versus the PG's 1200 at 4 Ohms (God knows what at 2, but it should be 15 or 1600, shouldn't it?) really making that much of a difference? It sure seems so. Wondering if I've wound up with another doorstop--only this one actually does work. Just not very well.
So the Visonik sounds like crap, runs way too hot, and shuts down at the drop of a hat. The PG sounded glorious--deep, tight, accurate and just plain good--and while I recall it getting pretty warm, I'm sure it didn't get anywhere near as hot. Seems to me I've wound up with a piece of junk that works, and a really nice amp that doesn't. Any chance I'm missing something here? Based on the behaviour of the two amps, it's starting to look like the PG was doing kind of the same thing as the Visonik--going into protect as I turned up the gain, only it didn't come out again.
A client of mine is a former electronics repair guy and he's willing to take a look at the
PG. Maybe something will jump out at him. Maybe I'm SOL. Guess we'll see what happens. Gotta do something, because after getting a taste of what the PG can do, this Visonik just ain't going to cut it.
Suggestions? Advice? Sympathy cards?
It's a 12. Don't know that it didn't go into protect. Couldn't really see.
So I got the Visonik, and I don't think I like it very much. It only seems to be moderately happy with the gain turned all the way down, or close to it. If I start inching it up it gets to about a third of the way up then the amp goes into protect. When it is working, compared to what I remember of my glorious 2 hours with a functioning PG, it sounds like crap. Plus, most worrisome of all--it gets hot. Really, really hot. Within just a few minutes, too hot to touch for more than a second. Too hot for me to be comfortable about using it.
So what's going on here? I'm thinking this can't be right. Is the Visonik really as anemic, underpowered and overrated as many seem to have suggested? Is the Type X really that inefficient? Based on my extremely limited experience with both, and with car audio in general, it would seem so to me. Did I spoil myself with the PG? Is it a case of the Visonik's 800 watts at 2 Ohms (800 watts my *** I can't help thinking) versus the PG's 1200 at 4 Ohms (God knows what at 2, but it should be 15 or 1600, shouldn't it?) really making that much of a difference? It sure seems so. Wondering if I've wound up with another doorstop--only this one actually does work. Just not very well.
So the Visonik sounds like crap, runs way too hot, and shuts down at the drop of a hat. The PG sounded glorious--deep, tight, accurate and just plain good--and while I recall it getting pretty warm, I'm sure it didn't get anywhere near as hot. Seems to me I've wound up with a piece of junk that works, and a really nice amp that doesn't. Any chance I'm missing something here? Based on the behaviour of the two amps, it's starting to look like the PG was doing kind of the same thing as the Visonik--going into protect as I turned up the gain, only it didn't come out again.
A client of mine is a former electronics repair guy and he's willing to take a look at the
PG. Maybe something will jump out at him. Maybe I'm SOL. Guess we'll see what happens. Gotta do something, because after getting a taste of what the PG can do, this Visonik just ain't going to cut it.
Suggestions? Advice? Sympathy cards?
07-30-2010, 10:34 PM
#9
The 12 is 85-87dB efficient, which isn't bad.
That M500 is broken.
Your voltage is too low if it goes into protect at any gain level. You should be able to crank it. It should sound muddy, but it shouldn't go into protect.
1200 @ 4 puts out about 1000W
800 @ 2 puts out about 500W.
... with a stock battery & alt, probably even less!
Higher ohms = less resistence, so it's more efficient @ 4.
The Visonik shouldn't be hot at all.
A "former electronics repair guy" isn't going to make your amp work lol, that sounds so shifty, don't even let him touch it because he'll think he knows what he's doing, unless he was fixing amps don't let him touch it.
If you take it apart and it looks black & fried, that'll jump out at you. The only way to see if your amp is properly working is to test the out-put.
There is almost no audible difference between 800-1200W. I went from 1500W to 750W and didn't even hear it, and the second sub was -5dB efficient. I'm a basshead and I didn't even notice the theorhetical 8dB loss.
Your amps are going into protect because the voltage is dropping too low. How many amps does your alternator put out and how many batteries do you have? What size wire did you use for everything? Did you do the "big three"? When the current going into an amp is weak, most go into protect at 10-12V.
Do the big three, get a battery, a high-current alternator, and a 1500W amp.
Even on my Sunfire GT's stock 90-amp alt and stock battery my Visonik 1500 @ 1 didn't get hot and it shut off once in 2 years, you rolling a '70s civic? LOL... I had 2 runs of 1.0 wire on the amp though.
That M500 is broken.
Your voltage is too low if it goes into protect at any gain level. You should be able to crank it. It should sound muddy, but it shouldn't go into protect.
1200 @ 4 puts out about 1000W
800 @ 2 puts out about 500W.
... with a stock battery & alt, probably even less!
Higher ohms = less resistence, so it's more efficient @ 4.
The Visonik shouldn't be hot at all.
A "former electronics repair guy" isn't going to make your amp work lol, that sounds so shifty, don't even let him touch it because he'll think he knows what he's doing, unless he was fixing amps don't let him touch it.
If you take it apart and it looks black & fried, that'll jump out at you. The only way to see if your amp is properly working is to test the out-put.
There is almost no audible difference between 800-1200W. I went from 1500W to 750W and didn't even hear it, and the second sub was -5dB efficient. I'm a basshead and I didn't even notice the theorhetical 8dB loss.
Your amps are going into protect because the voltage is dropping too low. How many amps does your alternator put out and how many batteries do you have? What size wire did you use for everything? Did you do the "big three"? When the current going into an amp is weak, most go into protect at 10-12V.
Do the big three, get a battery, a high-current alternator, and a 1500W amp.
Even on my Sunfire GT's stock 90-amp alt and stock battery my Visonik 1500 @ 1 didn't get hot and it shut off once in 2 years, you rolling a '70s civic? LOL... I had 2 runs of 1.0 wire on the amp though.
Last edited by Lord Huggington; 07-30-2010 at 10:37 PM.
07-31-2010, 12:41 AM
#10
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 912
I can't believe you'd be powering a type x with 300, 500, or even 800 watts. The tantrum is pretty much bare minimum. you need at least 1000 watts rms for that sub, or you're just asking for issues. considering the max rating is 3000watts, I'd be looking for an amp that puts out 1500 rms, and not only will you be well matched in power, but the quality and the loudness of the bass will be much better.
