n_o_s_21

after re-reading some things, a possibility comes to mind. but first, what did your pg amp do when it blew up??? is it possible you damaged your voice coils on your sub when the amp quit?? sounds like all the amps you tried since then have had issues, this could be from 1 coil being screwed. just a thought.

Lord Huggington

iTrader: (1)

That's more plausible than a directly-swapped M500 not working at all.

dc23

OK then...in order, as best as I can.

Addressing the points in rbgnwa45's post of just before midnight last night:

Seems quite plausible that the voltage is low...but yet it seemed to work even just off the battery (please read on). The alternator is stock (the manual I downloaded might say 70 amps, if I'm reading it right), the battery (yes, just one) is quite small and old (would like to get a new one, as powerful as possible, but what fits in the stock location is barely bigger than one of those lawn tractor ones). Yes, it's a Civic--'95 in fact. I'm using 4-gauge (two separate runs, one for just the sub amp--which is all I have hooked up so far), and have enough left to do the big three, just haven't yet. And keep in mind that on the first night when I hooked up the PG and it worked it did so for 2 hours and sounded great--and for most of that 2 hours I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE ENGINE TURNED ON. So I guess it was running just off the battery, and sounding just fine for my purposes even so. (Sorry about the caps--don't think I can do italics on a sidenote.) I was going very easy on the volume, at no time did I try to see if I could make the rear-view mirror fall off, but it still seemed plenty loud and authoritative and frankly I was thrilled. And the former electronics repair guy is somebody I trust. He ran the top shop in Kingston for 20+ years, before the VCR went the way of the toaster and became something you just replaced for 50 bucks when it broke. And I thought higher Ohms meant more resistance.

Now to address n_o_s_21's points: The PG amp didn't really blow up, it just quietly and politely stopped working. No drama whatsoever. I was trying to adjust the input sensitivity (gain, whatever). It's my understanding that as I turn the control clockwise (away from 4 volts, toward 0.2, increasing the sensitivity, I assume) it should get louder, then distorted, telling me I've gone too far. However the sound just stopped (not sure if that's the PG's way of telling me it's gone into protection or what. It doesn't have a separate light to signify protection, like the Visonik does, and I didn't notice if the regular power light was blinking or anything). Then when I would turn it back counter-clockwise again the bass would return--until the last time when it didn't. That's when I hooked up the Cadence to establish that the sub itself was still working, and it seems to be. Then I got the Visonik, and here we are. And if the PG was just going into protection, shouldn't it have gone back to normal when I turned it off and back on again? Bear in mind I've been doing all this at pretty moderate volume levels, and much of the time without the engine even running. Wouldn't it take something a bit more dramatic to fry a voice coil? Is there a way I can hook up each coil individually, just to establish whether they are both working? If one coil wasn't working and the other was, wouldn't the sub still work, just not nearly as well as it should?

Let me stress once again that I wasn't cranking it at all. I was being very tentative, very careful (I thought) not to screw anything up. Oh, and I should make clear that the M500 not working at all happened before I hooked up the PG or anything else to the Type X. It was the first time I had hooked it up to anything after I bought it. It was the next day that I hooked up the PG and had my 2 hours of nirvana.

And I gotta say: you guys are killing me. I got one guy saying it should work just fine with 500 watts, another saying I need at least 1500...and that first guy again saying the alternator/battery is an issue, even though the PG seemed to work OK (if only briefly) with the engine off and the alternator (just the battery) not even in the picture.

Starting to feel like I've just gotten in way over my head. Maybe I should have kept the Type R, or the Pioneer TS-W301R and 120-watt Kenwood amp, or God forbid the Pyle (of sh*t?) amplified subwoofer tube thingie which was the first thing I bought when I started all this. Should probably have tried hooking stuff up before moving on to the next level.

I'm frustrated and confused--except on one point: I really appreciate all your interest and help, so please don't give up on me. I've had a taste of what is possible and I'm not sure I want to settle for less. There has to be a way to get this sorted out. I'm willing to try just about anything--although a new battery and alternator would be a bit of a stretch right now. I mean, wouldn't they come into play more in terms of making things work better, not just work at all? I mean, do keep in mind that I was getting satisfactory results (if only briefly) running everything just on the battery.

Guess I'll go out and try hooking up the PG again. Maybe it was all just a bad dream and it'll work fine. Doubt it though. I'll let you know. Any further advice/suggestions are actively solicited and extremely welcome.

Guess the noob's journey has hit a bit of a roadblock. Damn. I loved what I had for that magic couple of hours. What did I say in my post: "Now I get it"? Well I don't got it no more--and I want it back.

dc23

So I did my big 3. Can't say it helped much. The Visonik still runs incredibly hot and goes into protection if I ask it to provide anything beyond what I would consider a moderate level of bass reinforcement. Window-rattling is completely out of the question. In fact if I stand right outside the car with the system turned up as loud as possible, it's barely audible. How those guys on YouTube get their roof panels flexing up and down I have no idea. Not that I'd ever want to do such a thing, but it might be nice to know I could if I wanted. I've got the sub hooked up to the front outputs and if I fade to just those it's actually very quiet. It just seems to have absolutely no grunt at all. And all this time I could be making a grilled cheese sandwich on the amp if I wanted.

At one point I was pretty sure I'd killed the Visonik, too. It went into protection and wouldn't come out again. Then a couple of hours later it started working again. Still haven't tried hooking up the PG to see if for some bizarre reason it might also have decided to work again. It's late and I guess I'll try that in the morning.

Can anyone tell me how to use my multimeter to determine how much voltage the amp is actually getting? Maybe I should try to pick up a lesser sub on the cheap to see if things go better with a less-demanding load? Maybe getting a Type X was a stupid rookie mistake?

Feeling a little abandoned here. Any guidance forthcoming?

fresh1

iTrader: (2)

don't buy alpine

jstoner22

iTrader: (1)

forget random claims that the sub only needs 500 or it can take 500 more than its rated.
you are clearly starting out, which is fine, so for now just aim for the manufacturers specs and call it a day. 1000watts RMS is enough to push the sub to its limits.

in the end it doesn't matter how powerful the amp is, if you have it set properly it should not be hurting anything.

you clearly have something going on since you have 3 different amps from three different manufacturers on the fritz now.
personally it sounds like you have are simply picking up either cheap amps, or amps rated for half of what the sub needs, and pushing them way to hard in hopes of achieving what you are really looking for. imo.

i'd would also check your coils on the sub, because you should not be having issues with that many amps.

also, it very tough to hear distortion through a sub, so if you are just there turning up the gain on an underpowered amp, you will push it into protect mode well before the sub reaches its mechanical limits.

save up, get a legit amp, evaluate your electrical, and once its all working, a box will make the biggest difference in how the sub performs.

SQmonster

iTrader: (2)

Try a different sub. It's a constant that doesn't change that needs to be taken out of the equation prior to the determination of your issue.
Alpine do make pre-broken products these days.

sx4life

iTrader: (1)

sounds like a sub issue to me, take it out test coils and press sub in see if there scraping!
and 1k of power for a type x I think should be sufficient, that pg amp should power it perfectly IMO!
And roof flex and windshield flex dont take a ton to get, I can flex most of my car when I tune it low, thats a single 12" TFone and a Bassworx 3k-rated but clamping 1700rms amp.
Check your sub out and give us some feedback

dc23

So I did the big 3, like I said, with no real improvement. The Visonik still runs hot and the Type X puts out very little volume before the amp goes into protection.

Then I hooked up the PG again to see if it had decided to work. No such luck. Things are now worse. The power light and the fan came on for less than a second, then it went dead. Previously, the light and fan would come on and stay on, just no output. Now it stays dead and it's eating fuses. It blew two 80-amp fuses in a row so it's clearly in worse shape than ever. Pretty sure it's now officially a doorstop. Damn.

And this is the strangest thing: the port on the fuse box into which I've been plugging the amps' remote turn-on lead has changed how it works. Before, when I turned the key to the acc position the head unit would come on but not the amp. The amp wouldn't come on until I turned the key to the on position. Now, when I turn the key to acc, both the head unit and the amp come on. And this is without me touching or changing anything. Anyone have any idea why that would be?

I'm planning to go out today to buy another, more mundane, sub--something more in the 300 watt range. Hopefully that will help me narrow down if there's a problem with the Type X, or if I've just made a dumb choice--too much sub for my level of experience and ability to deliver sufficient voltage. I did check the voltage at the amp (both of them) using my multimeter on the power and ground connections: 14.3. That's about right, isn't it?

And I did press in on the Type X driver. No scraping. Not sure how to test the coils.

Gotta admit, I'm feeling way in over my head. Sitting in the house listening to my Bryston was never like this.

Lord Huggington

iTrader: (1)

I was assuming with 1500W and the gains at half, it would sound better and get around 1200W, especially with 70 amps and an old/stock battery. 500W should also decently power it too, half the watts is barely audible.

Blowing fuses:
Car Audio Amplifier Blowing Fuses

If you were listening to it for two hours, you probably drained your battery.

With 14.3 volts your amps should be getting enough current, so this is confusing.

To test the coils you do the same as you did with the volt meter, you touch one lead to one coil and one to the other. I don't know what number you're looking for though.