Advantages & Disadvantages of a Tube amplifier vs. a Solid State amplifier.
11-23-2003, 03:03 PM
#71
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
I am curious about how one can get tube sound through EQ, that would address freq response issues (peaks and valleys) but not the other basics that make a tube and transistor sound different i.e. dampening factor, efficiency across the audio range, speed of transfer function, phase response/shift, electromechanical isolation. I know it can be done since Bob Carver has done it. And yeah it would amount to a distortion generator (like an EQ?).
I agree that on paper tubes measure much poorer than transistors, but since a tubed product doesn’t inherently sound worse or even very different (or un-listenable given the large amount of measurable distortion) I submit that the measurements we commonly use (THD, TIM) do not have a lot of value as far as listening goes. Distortion numbers are a measure of the amplifier manufacturer’s efforts to address accuracy and there are a number of tricks to make the measurements look good. The quality of a units power supply, gain and output circuits, and the quality of the installers work by far outweigh those artifacts. There are awesome sounding tube and transistor systems pick your poison I say. I have owned both and I will not own an all tube output stage (too fussy, short lived, it isn’t good at feeding low impedance loads, and oh yah expensive) all output stages are transistor… some have tube drivers though.
The fact that many use EQ’s is testament that the challenge of a cars acoustics is much more significant than the distortion numbers of even the worst made products out there (i.e. the Hissing S’s thread). I would NEVER even think of using an EQ in my home system, but in a car it is tough not to, and people lavish over the sound shaping in home theater. Conventional logic dictates throwing the most money at the speakers, I think that money and time are best spent on the automobile installation, then when that is addressed and the cars challenges are minimized then fret over drivers, amps and head units.
I apologize for the long winded soap box.
I agree that on paper tubes measure much poorer than transistors, but since a tubed product doesn’t inherently sound worse or even very different (or un-listenable given the large amount of measurable distortion) I submit that the measurements we commonly use (THD, TIM) do not have a lot of value as far as listening goes. Distortion numbers are a measure of the amplifier manufacturer’s efforts to address accuracy and there are a number of tricks to make the measurements look good. The quality of a units power supply, gain and output circuits, and the quality of the installers work by far outweigh those artifacts. There are awesome sounding tube and transistor systems pick your poison I say. I have owned both and I will not own an all tube output stage (too fussy, short lived, it isn’t good at feeding low impedance loads, and oh yah expensive) all output stages are transistor… some have tube drivers though.
The fact that many use EQ’s is testament that the challenge of a cars acoustics is much more significant than the distortion numbers of even the worst made products out there (i.e. the Hissing S’s thread). I would NEVER even think of using an EQ in my home system, but in a car it is tough not to, and people lavish over the sound shaping in home theater. Conventional logic dictates throwing the most money at the speakers, I think that money and time are best spent on the automobile installation, then when that is addressed and the cars challenges are minimized then fret over drivers, amps and head units.
I apologize for the long winded soap box.
11-24-2003, 05:46 AM
#72
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Tube Amps fail to attract the attention of most consumers.
Why? Because of how they sound.
I'll let that statement sink in for moment because it's the justification for a few drawbacks associated with tube amps.
The single strongest point for selecting tube amps over solid state or digital is the sound. Yet most consumers are far more biased by 1)Marketing, 2)The look of the product, 3) How loud it goes. Sometimes the first 2 influences are combined into a big fat "450 WATT" tag on a 200 watt digital amp. The tube amp makes what? 50 watts?
Tubes don't market well unless the target audience actually uses thier ears. So to bring my statement to a close, the sound of Tube amps is desirable, but unmarketable to the masses.
Just my take on why there aren't too many around in car audio.(Aside from the packaging issues)
Adam
Why? Because of how they sound.
I'll let that statement sink in for moment because it's the justification for a few drawbacks associated with tube amps.
The single strongest point for selecting tube amps over solid state or digital is the sound. Yet most consumers are far more biased by 1)Marketing, 2)The look of the product, 3) How loud it goes. Sometimes the first 2 influences are combined into a big fat "450 WATT" tag on a 200 watt digital amp. The tube amp makes what? 50 watts?
Tubes don't market well unless the target audience actually uses thier ears. So to bring my statement to a close, the sound of Tube amps is desirable, but unmarketable to the masses.
Just my take on why there aren't too many around in car audio.(Aside from the packaging issues)
Adam
11-24-2003, 07:20 AM
#73
short and sweet version:
tube amp- low efficiency
- expensive
- picky mounting location
- distortion,well lower in hybrid but still
- nice long wait to hear music
- turn of the century technology
- low power output,gotta be relly big to make 600 wrms+
solid state
- cheaper
- less heat,more mounting locations
- more power in a smaller chasis
- higher reliability more shock resistance
- more eficient, less distortion(as long as it is'nt pyramid [img]tongue.gif[/img] )
- tansistors are alot cheaper than tubes!
i hope this helps
tube amp- low efficiency
- expensive
- picky mounting location
- distortion,well lower in hybrid but still
- nice long wait to hear music
- turn of the century technology
- low power output,gotta be relly big to make 600 wrms+
solid state
- cheaper
- less heat,more mounting locations
- more power in a smaller chasis
- higher reliability more shock resistance
- more eficient, less distortion(as long as it is'nt pyramid [img]tongue.gif[/img] )
- tansistors are alot cheaper than tubes!
i hope this helps
11-24-2003, 02:19 PM
#74
Originally posted by JohnVroom:
No Sux2bu .. your point?
No Sux2bu .. your point?
My 100% OFC, triple shielded power supply cable from my 120v outlet to my home amp is on order. Just gotta wait for the voltage conditioning filter and I'm good to go. Does anybody know where you can get insulated, shielded, gold-plated duplex 120v outlets that are phase coherent?
11-24-2003, 05:48 PM
#75
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Wow! I had no idea you were such a tweak Sux2BU, you must be referring to the PS Audio power port wall outlet $49.95 US and the PS Audio P-300 Power Plant a sensible $1245 US from Music Direct www.amusicdirect.com quite the sonic bargain. How many CD's is that or how many season tickets to the local symphony is that ...
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